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James T Kirk September 28 2013 08:01 AM

The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
Ok so for a while he had you believing that he was a just mis-guided guy trying to erase a really bad mistake.

Then he turned into a horrific sociopathic villain.

"If it makes you feel any better... I was never going to spare your crew".

Ok so how did this guy become an Admiral?

The only even remotely possible reason he could have for destroying the Enterprise would be to stop word from getting out of what he had done, but would a Starfleet Admiral really behave this way?

The character just doesnt make any sense at all.

King Daniel Into Darkness September 28 2013 08:15 AM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
It makes perfect sense to me. Plan A was to ignite a war with the Klingons. But once blown, Kirk and his crew had to die to keep Marcus' plan from becoming public knowledge.

And, have you ever seen The Original Series? I think back then Starfleet hired people on the edge of sanity - Decker, Tracy, Garth etc.

ComicGuy89 September 28 2013 09:27 AM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
Quote:

James T Kirk wrote: (Post 8700577)
The only even remotely possible reason he could have for destroying the Enterprise would be to stop word from getting out of what he had done, but would a Starfleet Admiral really behave this way?

There's your answer right there. :)

The admiral was not just trying to erase a really bad mistake. He was a warmongering sociopath that was itching to have an excuse to wipe out the Klingons.

Star Trek has a history of insane or evil (or both) admirals. Even just counting the "classic" movies, you have Cartwright and Dougherty, one from each era.

As TVTropes so succinctly summed up their list of insane admirals:

Quote:

Really, the list of admirals in Star Trek who are not either insane or talking heads giving generic orders off a viewscreen is awfully short.

C.E. Evans September 28 2013 11:09 AM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
--Captain James T. Kirk, "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

It could be said that some Starfleet admirals have too much power, and even in the time of the Federation, the temptation to abuse that power can be too great for some (especially if they think what they're doing is for the greater good and the Federation is too idealistic and namby-pamby to do what needs to be done).

However, I think for one admiral that goes off the rails, hundreds (if not thousands) of others do not. But because quite a few admirals have become extremists over the past century or so, it can make the admiralty look somewhat bad from a historical perspective (a few bad apples souring the entire barrel of otherwise good ones).

Set Harth September 28 2013 02:43 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
Quote:

James T Kirk wrote: (Post 8700577)
Ok so for a while he had you believing that he was a just mis-guided guy trying to erase a really bad mistake.

No.

Captain_Amasov September 28 2013 03:00 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
Vice Admiral Leyton attempted a military takeover of Earth, and he was meant to be from the bright and shiny 24th century Starfleet too.

SeerSGB September 28 2013 03:13 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8700607)
It makes perfect sense to me. Plan A was to ignite a war with the Klingons. But once blown, Kirk and his crew had to die to keep Marcus' plan from becoming public knowledge.

And, have you ever seen The Original Series? I think back then Starfleet hired people on the edge of sanity - Decker, Tracy, Garth etc.

I think Plan A from the get go was to frag the Enterprise; hence taking out her warp drive. Kirk kills Khan, Marcus kills Kirk, "Those Klingon bastards launched a terrorist attack on Earth and destroyed the Federation flagship!"

Nerys Myk September 28 2013 04:42 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
Quote:

James T Kirk wrote: (Post 8700577)
Ok so for a while he had you believing that he was a just mis-guided guy trying to erase a really bad mistake.

Then he turned into a horrific sociopathic villain.

"If it makes you feel any better... I was never going to spare your crew".

Ok so how did this guy become an Admiral?

The only even remotely possible reason he could have for destroying the Enterprise would be to stop word from getting out of what he had done, but would a Starfleet Admiral really behave this way?

The character just doesnt make any sense at all.

Was Into Darkness your first experience with Star Trek?

SeerSGB September 28 2013 04:58 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
A pretty good analog to Marcus is Cartwright. Cartwright backed political assaination, set Kirk up to take the fall, and was ready to kill the Federation President all in the name of keeping the Federation safe.

Makarov September 28 2013 05:13 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
I really think they should have taken out the "I was never going to spare your crew" line. The only reason that's in there is to dumb it down, and tell the audience, here's the bad guy. It ruins the wonderful ambiguity that they just set up.

Nerys Myk September 28 2013 05:18 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
Nah, its a good villain moment.

Makarov September 28 2013 05:46 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
It'd be better if he just cut the viewscreen and fired after Kirk's apology. Or really any other line would have been better, because it's so cliche.

Dukhat September 28 2013 07:45 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
The more important thing here is why no one else has ever used the username James T Kirk until now.

C.E. Evans September 28 2013 10:21 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8702050)
The more important thing here is why no one else has ever used the username James T Kirk until now.

Variations of it has been used before.

James T. Kirk
James_T_Kirk

Haven't seen them in ages though...

Opus September 28 2013 11:25 PM

Re: The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever
 
This wasn't too hard to follow:

Marcus sends Kirk and the Enterprise to the edge of Klingon Space to fire torpedoes into a supposed barren area of Kronos (Qu'onos). A secret computer virus is implanted in the ship's computer by Section 31 to disable Enterprise while out there. Enterprise fires torpedoes. Klingons find Enterprise disabled. Klingons destroy Enterprise and the war Marcus wants begins.

Marcus was never going to spare Enterprise' crew. He sent them to slaughter to begin with.


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