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-   -   Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Khan? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=226873)

Khan 2.0 September 24 2013 10:36 PM

Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Khan?
 
In that (really very good) 3 parter the main villain is Malick - a genetically engineered superhuman like Khan, with an asian name but played by a white dude

Anyway I rewatched the 3 parter recently since having seen STID and it got me thinking how now it all plays out as more a prequel to STID than Space Seed/TWOK - not just in terms of design, modern feel etc but of the fact that Khan is also played by a white blue eyed guy - that aspect of downplaying the Indian warlord angle (in Space Seed anyway) and emphasizing the genetically altered/artificially created angle.

In STID Khan looks almost manufactured like a humanoid Data (kind of apt considering Soong featured in the Augment 3 parter) or even a slim Terminator (which he basically turned into when he went 'full Khan' at the end). it was more the nietzschean superman route

King Daniel Into Darkness September 24 2013 10:54 PM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
I'd say that the Augment trilogy works excellently and equally as a prequel to both Space Seed/Wrath of Khan and Into Darkness. Frankly, the race thing doesn't register with me since Khan's was obviously never a Sikh (Marla's identification of him as such, before she knew who or what he was makes no sense since he was clean shaven and had a waxed chest) and has noticably white skin in Wrath of Khan (they dropped the skin-darkening make up). Add to that his followers all turning Aryan in WoK and you have a VERY jumbled backstory indeed.

Back on topic, the ENT Augment trilogy forshadows Khan's effortlessly whupping Kingons, and the healing of the little girl. In the exchange between Archer and Arik Soong in "Borderland"...


SOONG: They're the future. They're stronger, smarter, free from sickness, with life spans twice as long as our own. You, more than anyone, should appreciate what this means.

ARCHER: Why me?

SOONG: Your father suffered from Clarke's Disease. His final years were marked with extreme pain.

ARCHER: My father has nothing to do with this.

SOONG: He didn't need to suffer. Genetic engineering could've cured him. Those who want to suppress my Augments are the same ones who condemned your father to death.

http://www.chakoteya.net/enterprise/80.htm

OpenMaw September 24 2013 11:01 PM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Enterprise, in my view, didn't have a lot of strong points.

The augment trilogy was probably one of it's strongest. The writing, the acting, the music, the action and suspense. It all works great. Not to mention it's ties to the past, and to the future (in Trek lore) are very natural and fitting.


Though, now that you bring it up. It just makes me wish even more that Harrison had been one of the Cold Station augments that had been recovered by S-31 and stored back on Earth.

Skywalker September 25 2013 12:24 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Quote:

OpenMaw wrote: (Post 8687338)
Though, now that you bring it up. It just makes me wish even more that Harrison had been one of the Cold Station augments that had been recovered by S-31 and stored back on Earth.

That could have been a neat little bit of trivia for us fans, but it probably would have carried too much continuity baggage for the uninitiated. Easier to just use Khan, who's at least a familiar name.

austen_pierce September 25 2013 12:35 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Going to have to rewatch the Augments episodes. Right now, I feel like making this connection is just reaching too far.

Agenda September 25 2013 02:25 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Quote:

Skywalker wrote: (Post 8687656)
Quote:

OpenMaw wrote: (Post 8687338)
Though, now that you bring it up. It just makes me wish even more that Harrison had been one of the Cold Station augments that had been recovered by S-31 and stored back on Earth.

That could have been a neat little bit of trivia for us fans, but it probably would have carried too much continuity baggage for the uninitiated. Easier to just use Khan, who's at least a familiar name.

It would have made even more sense to forget previous continuity entirely and say the augments were newly developed. The fleet has just been decimated and Vulcan destroyed. Starfleet is at its weakest. What better time is there to institute a genetic engineering program from a purely militaristic point of view?

R. Star September 25 2013 02:30 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
At least NuKhan didn't have those silly torn clothes. You'd think genetically enhanced people could figure out how to sew.

Set Harth September 25 2013 02:31 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Quote:

Agenda wrote:
It would have made even more sense to forget previous continuity entirely and say the augments were newly developed. The fleet has just been decimated and Vulcan destroyed. Starfleet is at its weakest. What better time is there to institute a genetic engineering program from a purely militaristic point of view?

But they only had a year.

Sindatur September 25 2013 02:56 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Quote:

Set Harth wrote: (Post 8688325)
Quote:

Agenda wrote:
It would have made even more sense to forget previous continuity entirely and say the augments were newly developed. The fleet has just been decimated and Vulcan destroyed. Starfleet is at its weakest. What better time is there to institute a genetic engineering program from a purely militaristic point of view?

But they only had a year.

Well...Sure, if you're gonna drag that old chestnut out ;) :guffaw:

IronWaffle September 25 2013 03:31 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8688316)
At least NuKhan didn't have those silly torn clothes. You'd think genetically enhanced people could figure out how to sew.

Says the Cardassian tailor!

Agenda September 25 2013 03:45 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Quote:

Set Harth wrote: (Post 8688325)
Quote:

Agenda wrote:
It would have made even more sense to forget previous continuity entirely and say the augments were newly developed. The fleet has just been decimated and Vulcan destroyed. Starfleet is at its weakest. What better time is there to institute a genetic engineering program from a purely militaristic point of view?

But they only had a year.

So? Kirk made captain in about a day. Rushing things for the sake of plot doesn't seem to be one of JJ's problems.

Set Harth September 25 2013 05:03 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Making Kirk captain only takes a moment. How does one create a fully grown adult augment in a year?

Skywalker September 25 2013 05:36 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Quote:

Set Harth wrote: (Post 8688832)
Making Kirk captain only takes a moment. How does one create a fully grown adult augment in a year?

With sufficiently advanced technology.

OpenMaw September 25 2013 08:15 AM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
Quote:

Skywalker wrote: (Post 8687656)
Quote:

OpenMaw wrote: (Post 8687338)
Though, now that you bring it up. It just makes me wish even more that Harrison had been one of the Cold Station augments that had been recovered by S-31 and stored back on Earth.

That could have been a neat little bit of trivia for us fans, but it probably would have carried too much continuity baggage for the uninitiated. Easier to just use Khan, who's at least a familiar name.

Eh...

You could even make it so that Marcus had restarted the program secretly due to the impeding war with the Klingon empire.

"Augments? Impossible! They were all destroyed nearly a century ago. Research into genetic enhancement has been completely outlawed ever since." - McCoy

And then Spock could do his Spock thing and explain how Marcus is a badass and would have access to that stuff. Or, even something as simple as having McCoy drop the bombshell that the super-human stuff is the result of Khan's genetic augmentation (After he takes the blood sample.)

Khan 2.0 September 25 2013 12:54 PM

Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh
 
thats an interesting - maybe even go one further and have Harrsion as an augmented superhuman that was created to do starfleets dirty work - born from a certain superhumans DNA/blood - big mystery until we find out its from Khan Noonian Singh (that couldve been the big reveal in the brig - Harrison saying something like 'My father is Khan!')

so the plot wouldve involved Harrison searching for Khan (and his people) that Admiral Marcus has stored away in a secret Section 31/Area 51 type base (Marcus dared not awaken khan but used his DNA/blood to create a Bourne/Rambo like supersoldier he could control) - Harrison would battle everyone like in TNGs The Hunted until he finds them and wed finally see Khan at the end in a cryopod (CG 1967 Space Seed Montalban) - Khan would be like the McGuffin/Artifact driving the plot like in Indiana Jones

would’ve made all kinds of sense with Cumberbatch looking/sounding nothing like Khan


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