The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Star Trek Movies I-X (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42)
-   -   Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=226651)

Mycroft Maxwell September 22 2013 08:29 AM

Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
Browsing through various websites and forums, people keep pointing out that In first contact, that while the Enterprise is surveying the Romulan Neutral Zone, Starfleet engages the borg at Earth, making it seem like Enterprise gets there in no time.

Well seems like a bad plot hole...but it isnt. THe battle that the Enterprise over hears , is occuring in the TYPHON SECTOR. During the breifing scene we hear Picard say "Admiral Hayes is mobilizing a fleet in the Typhon Sector." Well...if this is the Typhon Sector that has the Typhon Expanse...then the Borg were still pretty far from Earth. Picard would have known that he would need to head to Earth at maximum warp to intercept the borg in time. Also, when the movie cuts to the Borg after the Enterprise Warps...It is just then arriving at Earth. Also one has to consider the Enterprise E has a warp 9.9+ engine.

Any thoughts?

Mage September 22 2013 09:24 AM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
I remember reading somewhere that the idea was that Starfleet was fighting the Cube for a matter of days while traveling from the Typhon Sector to Earth. That's why the fleet is already so devastated by the time we see the actual battle.

King Daniel Into Darkness September 22 2013 10:13 AM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
But Picard orders red alert before they warp. It seems a bit of a stretch to do that days or weeks in advance of the battle:)

Mycroft Maxwell September 22 2013 12:27 PM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
True, but if you recall In best of both Worlds, The enterprise was at red alert the entire time.

The Old Mixer September 22 2013 01:10 PM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
The true maximum speed of the Ent-E is exactly the same as that of the TOS Ent...both are capable of traveling at the speed of plot.

Tiberius September 22 2013 01:50 PM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
Quote:

Mage wrote: (Post 8676886)
I remember reading somewhere that the idea was that Starfleet was fighting the Cube for a matter of days while traveling from the Typhon Sector to Earth. That's why the fleet is already so devastated by the time we see the actual battle.

I believe that would be HERE.

Mycroft Maxwell September 22 2013 09:14 PM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
Quote:

The true maximum speed of the Ent-E is exactly the same as that of the TOS Ent...both are capable of traveling at the speed of plot.
I remember Joe Michael Stratzinski saying that for Babylon 5 about the whitestars!

Speed of plot also needs to be within the realm of possibility with the given tech though.

R. Star September 22 2013 09:16 PM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
I always figured the battle was running for days by the time the Enterprise showed up.

T'Girl September 22 2013 09:52 PM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8676949)
But Picard orders red alert before they warp.

Calling red alert might have been to put the crew in position for a sustained journey at maximum warp. Maximum warp puts strain on the ship's structure and systems.

Plus, a series of battle drills would have been a good idea.

:)

BillJ September 22 2013 10:57 PM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
There is absolutely no indication that there was a passage of days anywhere in the movie. The closest we get is this:

Quote:

Star Trek: First Contact wrote:
PICARD: One, and it's on a direct course for Earth. It'll cross the Federation border in less than an hour. Admiral Hayes is mobilizing a fleet in the Typhon sector.
DATA: At maximum warp it will take us three hours twenty-five minutes.

Just because that is where they are meeting up doesn't mean that is where the battle with the Borg takes place. There's no indication that a group of starships could hold off the Borg for days. Plus, it makes no sense that the Enterprise would be at red alert for that long.

Just like the Abrams films, they compressed the time frame to keep everything up-tempo.

Mycroft Maxwell September 23 2013 12:12 AM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
In Best of Both worlds when they gathered the fleet, they gathered it right there at Wolf 359.

Tiberius September 23 2013 12:33 AM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8678923)
There is absolutely no indication that there was a passage of days anywhere in the movie. The closest we get is this:

Quote:

Star Trek: First Contact wrote:
PICARD: One, and it's on a direct course for Earth. It'll cross the Federation border in less than an hour. Admiral Hayes is mobilizing a fleet in the Typhon sector.
DATA: At maximum warp it will take us three hours twenty-five minutes.

Just because that is where they are meeting up doesn't mean that is where the battle with the Borg takes place. There's no indication that a group of starships could hold off the Borg for days. Plus, it makes no sense that the Enterprise would be at red alert for that long.

Just like the Abrams films, they compressed the time frame to keep everything up-tempo.

Hang on, hang on...

The line immdeiately after that is Picard inturrupting and saying, "We aren't going." So, the Enterprise is three and a half hours away from a battle in the Typhon sector, but they don't go. Later, we see the Enterprise join the battle at Earth. So the battle must have moved from the Typhon sector to Earth. I doubt the Borg would have been nice and friendly and not shot anyone while they were all going to Earth, so that indicates to me there was a running battle between the Typhon sector and earth.

Now, how long did it take? Well, considering that the Bozeman was lost in the Typhon expanse for a century or so before anyone went looking, it's safe to say that the Typhon sector is not near Earth. Out in the sticks is far more likely. So it's going to be some distance from Earth. Probably take a few days to cover the distance.

Thus, a running battle for a few days as the Borg went through the Typhon sector, continued to Earth, and the fleet tried to get them to stop by constantly attacking them.

Now, it is possible that the fleet met in the Typhon sector and then proceded to Earth, but why? Why assemble your fleet in an out of the way place like that?

Mycroft Maxwell September 23 2013 02:53 AM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
Thats a good question. Maybe there were advanced shipyards out there...well I dont even believe that. But the line was "Admiral Hayes is mobilizing a fleet in the Typhon sector". Whether the battle was fought there or not, thats an odd place to mobilize a fleet. But it would make more sense that being the first place of engagement. Perhaps it was the direction from which the borg were coming, and Admiral Hayes wanted to slow that cube down as much as possible to give time for re-enforcments gather at Earth. That is a really good question Tiberius

Nerys Myk September 23 2013 03:07 AM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
The Enterprise must have gotten from the Neutral Zone to Earth pretty quickly, since the Defiant engaged the Borg at Earth as the Enterprise received the message the Borg had broken through the defense perimeter. When the Enterprise arrives at Earth the Defiant has been defeated by the Borg. How long did the Defiant hold out against the Borg?

Mycroft Maxwell September 23 2013 03:12 AM

Re: Star Trek First Contact: One less plothole..My argument
 
Quote:

since the Defiant engaged the Borg at Earth as the Enterprise received the message the Borg had broken through the defense perimeter.
I been arguing the battle the Enterprise received audio of, was occurring at the Typhon sector. I believe the defiant was one of the ships pursuing the cube. Kinda how the Enterprise pursued the cube all the way to earth in BOBW.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.