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-   -   Why no Captain Riker. (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=226597)

T'Girl September 21 2013 07:30 PM

Why no Captain Riker.
 
This come from reading the "Favorite Trek Couple" thread.

it never occurred to me before, but I wonder if Riker turned down all of those promotions and starship commands not so he could remain on the Enterprise as Picard's first officer, but so that he could remain on the ship that had Deanna on board, to be close to her. There were various lovers through the years, but no one long term.

Once she was married to him and willing to leave with him away from the Enterprise, then Riker moved on to his first command, the Titan.

The impression I received from the first season of TNG was that Riker as a rapidly advancing young officer, and that the Enterprise was basically just a stepping stone for him, we find out later that he turned down a number of possibilities to advance.

Was it mainly Deanna?

:)

R. Star September 21 2013 07:37 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
I always thought he was holding out for Picard to get promoted/move on to get the Enterprise's big chair.

Bad Thoughts September 21 2013 07:58 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
So Riker was stalking Troi? (ETA: essentially keeping an eye on her, making sure she made no attachments, and that Worf got no action)?

RandyS September 21 2013 08:14 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
Quote:

Bad thoughts wrote: (Post 8674984)
So Riker was stalking Troi? (ETA: essentially keeping an eye on her, making sure she made no attachments, and that Worf got no action)?

Why does Riker being in love with Troi automatically mean that he's stalking her?

No, the first two posts got it right.

Triskelion September 21 2013 08:44 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
Interesting question, T'Girl....

I think Riker recognized being on Enterprise was more important than personal achievement, pride, or control of his own ship. I think what the Enterprise represented, as Federation flagship, held more meaning for him and significance for the Federation. I think serving under Picard was a privilege, and he was willing to accept that role indefinitely - eventually leading, of course, to his captaincy of the Enterprise itself. His remaining aboard served his younger aspirations of achievement - but integrated a whole new, non-egotistical dimension to his ambitions. Serving aboard the Enterprise changed him.

I think he appreciated Troi and they would always be there for each other - but knowing his personality, I don't believe he would find it necessary to prioritize family over duty. Particularly since they were both still sowing a few oats.

There are (at least) two distinctive personality types - those who, among other factors, prioritize family over work, and vice versa. It's hard to pin down a fictional character because we all may see what that character evokes in us, so I submit there probably is no correct answer. Also, who knows what a writer-of-the-week would throw into the gumbo.

Unquestionably she was a point in favor of staying.... If he wanted to sow more oats, that was never a problem for them in the enlightened (liberal Californian) future.

Bad Thoughts September 21 2013 10:33 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
Quote:

RandyS wrote: (Post 8675023)
Quote:

Bad thoughts wrote: (Post 8674984)
So Riker was stalking Troi? (ETA: essentially keeping an eye on her, making sure she made no attachments, and that Worf got no action)?

Why does Riker being in love with Troi automatically mean that he's stalking her?

No, the first two posts got it right.

I'm pretty sure I didn't equate being in love with stalking, just the proposed motivations ascribed to Riker. Indeed, I am being somewhat facetious, but although T'girl's proposition has its merits (and might even be cute), it would substantially change the character. In the real world, someone who kept close to someone they intended to marry while pursuing other relationships, some serious, would probably be considered a sign of having issues with relationships. More specifically, Riker keeping a flame for Troi cheapens those relationships he did have, some of them serious. His relationship with Soren (Riker effectively asked permission of Troi to date her, he was so serious) loses almost all of its emotional impact if he was committed, secretly, to someone else. He does address it in All Good Things, but he equivocates. Mostly, it's suggestive of how he behaved toward Worf when he discovered the relationship with Troi.

Nerys Myk September 21 2013 10:35 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
He wanted the Enterprise and Picard refused to leave or die.

Robert Comsol September 21 2013 11:00 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
If you really believe what happened in "These Are The Voyages" (ENT) then he obviously didn't have it in him to become captain of a starship.

If he really needed a history lesson to make up his mind whether he should tell Picard the truth about the Pegasus Incident or not, then he wasn't "The Right Stuff".

But it's a good thing to know that TATV has to be a piece of holodeck propaganda. He says to Deanna "Now I'm ready to talk to Picard (but I can't because I've been ordered by Admiral Pressman not to do so)." :rofl:

Bob

RandyS September 21 2013 11:09 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
Quote:

Bad thoughts wrote: (Post 8675395)
Quote:

RandyS wrote: (Post 8675023)
Quote:

Bad thoughts wrote: (Post 8674984)
So Riker was stalking Troi? (ETA: essentially keeping an eye on her, making sure she made no attachments, and that Worf got no action)?

Why does Riker being in love with Troi automatically mean that he's stalking her?

No, the first two posts got it right.

I'm pretty sure I didn't equate being in love with stalking, just the proposed motivations ascribed to Riker. Indeed, I am being somewhat facetious, but although T'girl's proposition has its merits (and might even be cute), it would substantially change the character. In the real world, someone who kept close to someone they intended to marry while pursuing other relationships, some serious, would probably be considered a sign of having issues with relationships. More specifically, Riker keeping a flame for Troi cheapens those relationships he did have, some of them serious. His relationship with Soren (Riker effectively asked permission of Troi to date her, he was so serious) loses almost all of its emotional impact if he was committed, secretly, to someone else. He does address it in All Good Things, but he equivocates. Mostly, it's suggestive of how he behaved toward Worf when he discovered the relationship with Troi.

It was the way you worded it, "So Riker was stalking Troi?", that made me think so.

As to your other points, "keeping up the drama" is really the only explanation I can offer.

C.E. Evans September 21 2013 11:44 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
I think that Riker definitely wanted to be on the Enterprise, but once there, got very comfortable as XO (a subject that was brought up more than once on the show).

In the end, he moved on to his own command when he got good and ready. Following the rekindling of his romance with Troi in Insurrection, there may not have been any doubt that she was going to join him wherever he went. Upon finally accepting the Titan, Riker might have just decided to--as Beyoncé would say--"put a ring on it" with Troi.

MacLeod September 21 2013 11:53 PM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
Quote:

Robert Comsol wrote: (Post 8675443)
If you really believe what happened in "These Are The Voyages" (ENT) then he obviously didn't have it in him to become captain of a starship.

If he really needed a history lesson to make up his mind whether he should tell Picard the truth about the Pegasus Incident or not, then he wasn't "The Right Stuff".

But it's a good thing to know that TATV has to be a piece of holodeck propaganda. He says to Deanna "Now I'm ready to talk to Picard (but I can't because I've been ordered by Admiral Pressman not to do so)." :rofl:

Bob

Well if you like we can go with one of Picard's speeches

The first duty of every Starfleetofficer is to the truth... be it scientific truth, historical truth, or personal truth. It is the guiding principle upon which Starfleet is based. If you cannot find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened... you do not deserve to wear that uniform.


But as was stated in at least one episode being 1st Officer of the Enterprise did hold a certain prestige.

JT Perfecthair September 22 2013 12:04 AM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
Watching Jellico and Riker go at it makes it clear that one is Captain of a Starship and one is not. There would be a lot of "Jellico's" at the higher levels of Starfleet with which Riker would have been equally as successful with.

You see the same in his dealing with Commander Shelby and even his own father, they are just different types of people than he is. Nothing wrong with that, some people make great dads, but not the best parent, which is the fundamental role of Captain.

In many ways I think Riker is a great portrayal of an emotionally abused child. They often grow up into authority positions to please or prove something to the parent, but still hold onto parts of their childhood, protecting it from the abuser until they can live their own lives later on. Adult Riker jokes a lot, likes to kid and play games, sleep around, play music in clubs all night. Not a bit like serious old dad, or like a ships Captain.

jpv2000 September 22 2013 12:40 AM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 8674879)
This come from reading the "Favorite Trek Couple" thread.

it never occurred to me before, but I wonder if Riker turned down all of those promotions and starship commands not so he could remain on the Enterprise as Picard's first officer, but so that he could remain on the ship that had Deanna on board, to be close to her. There were various lovers through the years, but no one long term.

Once she was married to him and willing to leave with him away from the Enterprise, then Riker moved on to his first command, the Titan.

The impression I received from the first season of TNG was that Riker as a rapidly advancing young officer, and that the Enterprise was basically just a stepping stone for him, we find out later that he turned down a number of possibilities to advance.

Was it mainly Deanna?

:)

I like to think so. :luvlove:

JirinPanthosa September 22 2013 04:09 AM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
Riker was turning down the promotions because any captain commission he would have gotten would have been on a far less important ship.

Mycroft Maxwell September 22 2013 04:50 AM

Re: Why no Captain Riker.
 
If I recall, Riker turned down the USS Drake (Arsenal of Freedom) before being assigned to the Enterprise. I don't think it was the Enterprise...well I think it may have been when the Melborne was offered to him.


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