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-   -   Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=226393)

xvicente September 19 2013 09:54 PM

Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
There's no doubt they had sex in The Naked Time.

But Tasha was under influence.

She seemd to regret that at the end opf the episode: "It never happened!"

Roddenberry was portraying the future as sex-liberal, but I'm not sure this is liberality.

OTOH Data is clearly immature at that point. He could be argued to be incapable of understand his actions. He annoyed Picard with embarassing questions often.


Edit: given the occasional truculence of the moderators I've seen around here I half-expect this thread to be deleted or closed on sight. If so, oh, well.

JirinPanthosa September 19 2013 10:05 PM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Are those the only two options?

Tasha was drunk and Data didn't pick up on the fact that Tasha was not in control of her actions at the time. That was probably bad writing, I don't know, Data should be programmed understand the subtleties of consent, right? It was clear to me that Data was under the impression it was a fully consenting invitation.

Trekker4747 September 19 2013 11:23 PM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Don't forget, once touched Data was "infected" too so we could argue he wasn't in his right mind either.

R. Star September 19 2013 11:37 PM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Tasha's advice of "It never happened" is good. For the whole episode.

Chensams September 20 2013 01:52 PM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
I don't really think it was abuse. Not a good decision but not abuse on either party. Data had no way of knowing Tasha Yar was infected.

Mutai Sho-Rin September 20 2013 01:56 PM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Quote:

xvicente wrote: (Post 8667382)
Edit: given the occasional truculence of the moderators I've seen around here I half-expect this thread to be deleted or closed on sight. If so, oh, well.

Whatever gives you that impression? We try to be very light-handed in the show fora unless obvious abusive or pornographic content appears. I've been mod on this forum for nearly a year and awarded one warning and closed about three content-free threads. Nothing in your thread even peeks over any arbitrary line, much less crosses it, in fact, it is a very good observation IMO.

bbjeg September 20 2013 04:28 PM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
The fact that Tasha said "it didn't happen" and that Data kept talking about it could be viewed as abuse.

Silvercrest September 20 2013 08:22 PM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Did he keep talking about it? I thought I remembered that he got the hint immediately and clammed up ... even though that would be a little unusual for S1 Data.

Directed to the OP: Who's supposed to have abused whom, anyway?

Trekker4747 September 20 2013 08:44 PM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Quote:

Silvercrest wrote: (Post 8671054)
Did he keep talking about it? I thought I remembered that he got the hint immediately and clammed up ... even though that would be a little unusual for S1 Data.

Directed to the OP: Who's supposed to have abused whom, anyway?

Agruably Data since he took advantage of someone who was not in a state of mind to give consent at the time of their encounter. Though at that point it may have been early enough in the events for Data to not know Tasha wasn't in her right mind and, as I said, once touched Data no longer was in his right mind either as he was also vulnerable to the Psi 2000 virus variant.

bbjeg September 21 2013 12:00 AM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Data talked about his romance in later episodes (he even told the Borg queen :lol:), after Tasha said not to. He may not have been in the right state of mind but after he was, he should have dropped it as suggested.

The Old Mixer September 21 2013 12:02 AM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
"Drunk" or not, Tasha was the sexual aggressor, and Data was virtually a child when it came to sexual experience. I'd say that nobody was at fault.

Quote:

Silvercrest wrote: (Post 8671054)
Did he keep talking about it?

Clearly not, since he was reluctant to bring it up in his own defense at his trial in "The Measure of a Man", on the basis that he'd given his word.

Perhaps bbjeg was under the impression that Picard knew because Data had told him...I was always under the impression that Picard was just that perceptive...and/or possibly Tasha had dropped a hint somewhere behind the scenes that he'd picked up on.

Trekker4747 September 21 2013 12:09 AM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Quote:

The Old Mixer wrote: (Post 8671990)
"Drunk" or not, Tasha was the sexual aggressor, and Data was virtually a child when it came to sexual experience. I'd say that nobody was at fault.

You have some funny ideas on consent. :wtf: Tasha may have been the aggressor but she still wasn't in her full state of mind, it'd take an immoral person to take advantage of that. Plenty of times drunk women get in "aggressive" moods sexually and it's still pretty much universally considered dickish to take advantage of that.

The Old Mixer September 21 2013 12:12 AM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Quote:

Trekker4747 wrote: (Post 8672011)
You have some funny ideas on consent. :wtf: Tasha may have been the aggressor but she still wasn't in her full state of mind, it'd take an immoral person to take advantage of that. Plenty of times drunk women get in "aggressive" moods sexually and it's still pretty much universally considered dickish to take advantage of that.

If Data were a sexually mature human, and was aware that she wasn't in her right mind, that would be true. You chose to ignore the part where I said that Data was virtually a child when it came to sexuality.

Hypothetically, if a drunk woman seduces and has sex with a minor, who's at fault?

R. Star September 21 2013 12:24 AM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
The moment she touched his shoulders he was infected with drunk whatever too. So yeah... they both were impaired. Casting blame on either of them is unfounded.

The only time he mentioned his relationship with Tasha was during the trial for his life, and Picard said it best, "Under the circumstances I don't think Tasha would mind."

All he did with the Queen was state to the second how long it was since he had sex. He didn't say with who, or announce the circumstances.

JirinPanthosa September 21 2013 12:49 AM

Re: Data x Tasha. Was that affection or abuse?
 
Quote:

Mutai Sho-Rin wrote: (Post 8669512)
Quote:

xvicente wrote: (Post 8667382)
Edit: given the occasional truculence of the moderators I've seen around here I half-expect this thread to be deleted or closed on sight. If so, oh, well.

Whatever gives you that impression? We try to be very light-handed in the show fora unless obvious abusive or pornographic content appears. I've been mod on this forum for nearly a year and awarded one warning and closed about three content-free threads. Nothing in your thread even peeks over any arbitrary line, much less crosses it, in fact, it is a very good observation IMO.

On every forum I've ever been to threads tend to get closed if they brooch on the topic of sexual violence. I think the original poster was worried because he raised the question of whether this constituted sexual violence.

I think in this case Data was just not capable of identifying Tasha's body language as drunk body language.


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