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-   -   Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=226174)

Austin 3:16 September 17 2013 12:12 PM

Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
I mean the Enterprise E has quantum torps, but the Vengeance has those badass BFG's.

As you can see in this pic, the Vengeance dwarfs the Enterprise E.

Who would come out on top in a regular battle, in your opinion?

http://oi41.tinypic.com/20p4twx.jpg

Smellmet September 17 2013 01:28 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
I'd like to think the E would kick it's ass personally, it's 100 years more advanced

The Wormhole September 17 2013 02:17 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Starships really are ridiculously oversized in the Abramsverse.

Oh, and I'll say the Enterprise E, just because I like that ship best. But in a realistic scenario where fan bias isn't a factor it would depend on which one is commanded by Batman and if he had time to prepare.

anh165 September 17 2013 05:42 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
The Enterprise E should be the far superior ship, but conceptually and on screen it is very dated with its standard sweeping phaser and torpedo combination. It has quantum torpedoes which deploys and tracks like standard photon torpedoes do, but does + 25 damage!! Whoopy @#*d*# do!!


For a ship that is 100+ years ahead of TOS era know how, it doesn't really demonstrate much of an advancement. You have to read up canon specifications from literature to even know it posesses something better like it having "type 12" phasers over the old "type 6" found in the TOS era.

On screen the Vengeance conceptually looks like a very advanced ship, almost breaking away from what we normally see from Federation ships, even those in the 24th century.

Bad Thoughts September 17 2013 05:55 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
How did the impact of such a large object not cause an unimaginable tsunami?

T'Girl September 17 2013 06:21 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Quote:

Bad thoughts wrote: (Post 8658109)
How did the impact of such a large object not cause an unimaginable tsunami?

You mean when the Vengeance hit San Francisco Bay towards the end of the movie?

Two things, one San Francisco Bay isn't very deep, and two the Vengeance hit at such an angle that it basically skidded across the surface. If it had dove into the water it would have struck the bottom and flipped over. Debatably the ends of the engine nacelles might not have reached the shore line. It certainly wouldn't have tore into those buildings.

My anwser to the OP, the Enterprise E century of technological advantage would make it's shields impervious to all of the Vengeance's antique weapons, the Vengeance would be carved up unless it surrendered. Nor would the Vengeance have the speed to run away.

Any attempt to attack would be considered "charming."

:)

R. Star September 17 2013 06:26 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Just because an oil tanker is bigger than a destroyer doesn't mean it's going to beat it. In naval history the trend is for ships to get smaller, not larger. The "battleship" is pretty much an obsolete concept now. The same concept would apply even more so to space with computer automation and smaller crew compliments. But "big" ships look better on screen so... hence the JJverse.

anh165 September 17 2013 06:58 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Quote:


Any attempt to attack would be considered "charming."

:)
If you assume 100 years between the 23rd to 24th century is really that significant. The EE is dated with conventional phaser + torp defensive systems and you have not taken the element of diminishing returns when technology evolution is involved.

Vengeance is a result of the narada's involvement in the 23rd century and starfleets mandate to push aggressively towarda a millitary approach in space. it demonstrates combat abilities that no other federation ship has yet to match such as the ability to over power a shielded vessel and evaporate large portions of hull, the only other time a ship done this to a 23rd century vessel was a borg cube, and we can all agree a cube will be too much for the enterprise E.

Chemahkuu September 17 2013 07:04 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Vengeances gatling phasers ripped the Enterprise to shreds with her shields up. Given all the technical advances of this new universe and the stronger hulls, advanced shielding, Vengeance took bites out of her like it wasn't there.

The Enterprise E was badly damaged and losing her battle with the Scimitar, a ship built by human/bat hybrid slaves with the same technological level, simple more shields and hull plating. Even scoring direct hits, she depleted her weapons almost entirely and couldn't dent the Scimitar.

Put her up against something with transwarp, phaser cannons of that level of power, given that she's smaller and a hell of a lot thinner (more fragile likely) than the Nu Enterprise and Vengeance would rip her apart in minutes.

R. Star September 17 2013 08:41 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.

Austin 3:16 September 17 2013 08:45 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8658727)
See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.

But in Star Trek 2009 the characters themselves said that Nero's interference changed the timeline.

Chemahkuu September 17 2013 08:47 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Quote:

Austin 3:16 wrote: (Post 8658751)
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8658727)
See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.

But in Star Trek 2009 the characters themselves said that Nero's interference changed the timeline.

Yup, and we have no idea at all what 2233 era ships look like. Kelvin could well have been in service in both.

F. King Daniel September 17 2013 08:48 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8658727)
See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.

That just means they built them bigger in those days.

Voyager came after the Enterprise-D, can do all the same things but is much much smaller.

Chemahkuu September 17 2013 08:53 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Stafleet largely went with an anorexic or deformed appearance for a lot of it's ships, cramming things in in odd ways, in fairly small ships. The Galaxy class sacuer and the scale of the ship in general broke away from that a bit, but with a seriously tiny butt.

The new universe doesn't seem to skimp on size and how much it packs into each, far larger ships, larger crews, all the mechanical facilties they need and a small floatilla of support craft.

Bad Thoughts September 17 2013 09:24 PM

Re: Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8658727)
See, I don't buy that the Narada changed everything regarding ship design. Just look at the Kelvin. It was bigger than the original NCC-1701 20 plus years earlier. The JJverse was an alternate timeline long before Nero flew into it.

The anomaly that brought the Narada back released anti-time particles, retroactively applying the relaunch to the timeline. Everything is bigger since 2009 (even my belly)!


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