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-   -   when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=226099)

JT Perfecthair September 16 2013 08:39 PM

when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Apart from the 10,000 volts in their keyboards that explode and the endless steam lines that run all over the bridge waiting to start venting as soon as a torpedo hits, what drives me nuts about Trek combat scenes is the inevitable:

random ensign: "The shields are out/engines off/engines gone wild/insert crisis here!"

captain: "Engage the manual override!"

random ensign: "I cant sir, the manual override is offline!"

Well it can't be, its a MANUAL system. In modern day you push a button to lower your aircraft landing gear, if the computer either does nothing or reports back that your landing gear are not responding, you don't keep pushing the buttons, instead you go to your manual override which is a hand crank that lowers the gear.

Trek seems to have only automatic manual systems!

MacLeod September 16 2013 08:52 PM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
I'd be more worried about the high rate of failure of the fail safe systems. i.e. the Warp core ejection system. i.e a failure of the ejection system should actually cause the core to be ejected.

Cyke101 September 16 2013 10:46 PM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Quote:

MacLeod wrote: (Post 8654041)
I'd be more worried about the high rate of failure of the fail safe systems. i.e. the Warp core ejection system. i.e a failure of the ejection system should actually cause the core to be ejected.

And then there's that useless warp core shield in Nemesis. Sure, it might do other things that we're not aware of, like stabilizing the intermix chamber or something technobabbly like that, but what good is it if it drops with a single hit? The script put it up just so that it could go down, maybe there was some change leftover in the SFX budget.

R. Star September 16 2013 11:07 PM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Yeah OSHA would have a field day on a Starfleet vessel. Starfleet.. we put the FAIL in failsafe! :)

Isolinear September 17 2013 12:19 AM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Ensign Gueststar: "Compensating....rerouting power from the Artificial Gravity system"

Captain Picard: "I thought you said all systems lost power?"

Ensign Gueststar: "Artificial Gravity and the Holodeck are connected to a different failsafe device, the Plot-Potential-Multiplier. They cannot fail"

Captain Picard: "Make it so...."

Tiberius September 17 2013 07:24 AM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Quote:

JT Perfecthair wrote: (Post 8653957)
Apart from the 10,000 volts in their keyboards that explode and the endless steam lines that run all over the bridge waiting to start venting as soon as a torpedo hits, what drives me nuts about Trek combat scenes is the inevitable:

random ensign: "The shields are out/engines off/engines gone wild/insert crisis here!"

captain: "Engage the manual override!"

random ensign: "I cant sir, the manual override is offline!"

Well it can't be, its a MANUAL system. In modern day you push a button to lower your aircraft landing gear, if the computer either does nothing or reports back that your landing gear are not responding, you don't keep pushing the buttons, instead you go to your manual override which is a hand crank that lowers the gear.

Trek seems to have only automatic manual systems!

And when the handle breaks off, the manual over-ride is offline.

Any system can break and not work.

Tiberius September 17 2013 07:27 AM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Quote:

MacLeod wrote: (Post 8654041)
I'd be more worried about the high rate of failure of the fail safe systems. i.e. the Warp core ejection system. i.e a failure of the ejection system should actually cause the core to be ejected.

Actually, the whole idea of a failsafe system is that if it fails, it remains safe.

As an example, take the brakes on trains here in Sydney. The wheels are turned by electric motors, but the brakes are operate by compressed air. But the air keeps the brakes OFF. That way, if the air system fails, the brakes come on, because there's nothing keeping the brakes off. And so, it's impossible for a train in Sydney to run out of control. The brakes are either working, or they're not. If they're working, then the driver can apply them at any time. And if they aren't working, they're stuck on and the train can't move. So if it fails, it's safe.

Captain Rob September 17 2013 08:11 AM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
The fail safe/manual override systems on Star Trek reminds me of the old WW2 Bugs Bunny cartoon with the Gremlins. Bugs is alone on a huge bomber that's about to crash. He hits the autopilot button. And out of a cabinet pops this stick figure robot with a lightbulb for a head. It surveys the situation while making beeping sounds and his head blinks. It then grabs the only parachute and bails out.

C.E. Evans September 17 2013 08:24 AM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Quote:

Tiberius wrote: (Post 8656549)
Quote:

JT Perfecthair wrote: (Post 8653957)
Apart from the 10,000 volts in their keyboards that explode and the endless steam lines that run all over the bridge waiting to start venting as soon as a torpedo hits, what drives me nuts about Trek combat scenes is the inevitable:

random ensign: "The shields are out/engines off/engines gone wild/insert crisis here!"

captain: "Engage the manual override!"

random ensign: "I cant sir, the manual override is offline!"

Well it can't be, its a MANUAL system. In modern day you push a button to lower your aircraft landing gear, if the computer either does nothing or reports back that your landing gear are not responding, you don't keep pushing the buttons, instead you go to your manual override which is a hand crank that lowers the gear.

Trek seems to have only automatic manual systems!

And when the handle breaks off, the manual over-ride is offline.

Any system can break and not work.

This. IMO, manual override is simply taking direct control of a system from the computer, but if the command links to that system goes offline, so does manual override. At that point, you need people to scramble and physically do things the old-fashioned way with wrenches and hammers--which probably takes more time than is available in an immediate crisis situation, but could be done afterward during repairs.

J. Allen September 17 2013 08:45 AM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Out of Order?! FUCK! Even in the future nothing works!

R. Star September 17 2013 09:04 AM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
The weapons sure don't. Even in that time travel silliness that was Relativity, the future of the future, the phasers still don't hurt people. ;)

J. Allen September 17 2013 09:54 AM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8656756)
The weapons sure don't. Even in that time travel silliness that was Relativity, the future of the future, the phasers still don't hurt people. ;)

I think Starfleet security personnel, and the Galactic Empire's Stormtroopers are trained at the same facility. :lol:

The Wormhole September 17 2013 02:22 PM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Quote:

JT Perfecthair wrote: (Post 8653957)
Apart from the 10,000 volts in their keyboards that explode and the endless steam lines that run all over the bridge waiting to start venting as soon as a torpedo hits, what drives me nuts about Trek combat scenes is the inevitable:

random ensign: "The shields are out/engines off/engines gone wild/insert crisis here!"

captain: "Engage the manual override!"

random ensign: "I cant sir, the manual override is offline!"

Well it can't be, its a MANUAL system. In modern day you push a button to lower your aircraft landing gear, if the computer either does nothing or reports back that your landing gear are not responding, you don't keep pushing the buttons, instead you go to your manual override which is a hand crank that lowers the gear.

Trek seems to have only automatic manual systems!

"Offline" is often the Trek term for "not working." After all, on Voyager, the toilets once went "offline."

Forbin September 17 2013 05:43 PM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Maybe the manual crank broke. :(

Mr. Laser Beam September 17 2013 05:54 PM

Re: when will they learn that a Manual Override can never be Offline?
 
Any system can stop working. That's all that "offline" means, anyway - it doesn't work. Just because the manual override is, well, manual, doesn't mean jack. It can stop working just like any other system can.

And let's face it, in a freaking STARSHIP, there's not going to be a system that is so manual that it involves turning a crank. You simply don't have things like that on a starship. All Starfleet technology works by computers and pressing buttons - that's simply how it is. Everything is automated. There is no crank to pull. You don't see helm officers steering the ship by turning a wheel - same story here.


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