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-   -   Why do you need warp power? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=226006)

austen_pierce September 16 2013 01:52 AM

Why do you need warp power?
 
Question. In STiD, Enterprise is falling to her death. Scotty says the warp core is out of alignment and that the ship is dead. Kirk fixes the core and Sulu arrests the big E by... Wait for it ... Firing thrusters???

Why does Enterprise need warp power to fire thrusters? The most you need is wiring, some control circuits, the thrusters themselves, and a bit of aux power to run the whole thing, which they early had... The lights were on.

In ST09, Sulu abandons Warp AND impulse and lifts the ship using thrusters alone.

OpenMaw September 16 2013 02:38 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
There's a difference between the warp engines and the warp reactor itself.

Aux power was gone for whatever reason when they were going down, i'd venture a guess that one of the million hits to the ship probably knocked the sprockets off the auxiliary reactor.

So all you'd have left is the warp core to power the ship, also, we did see (at least i'm pretty sure we did) in one of the TOS episodes that the Enterprise has a hard time maintaining orbit without main power.

J. Allen September 16 2013 03:01 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
The ship was already drifting toward Earth, and both the main power, and auxiliary power were gone. There was nothing that could give them the force they needed to stop their momentum. Once they got power back online, Sulu fired every thruster they had (there were a shitload... that's a technical term), and they began to rise back up into the air. Once full power came back, they were able to use warp/impulse power to move back into orbit.

The Wormhole September 16 2013 03:11 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
According to other Treks, the warp core powers everything aboard the starship. This is based partially on aircraft in the real world which have to electricity unless the engine is active. Indeed, practically everything had shut down on the
Enterprise, the lights even the artificial gravity which usually always stays active even when nothing else is. The warp core was needed simply to power the ship.

drt September 16 2013 03:55 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
When the warp core came on line you can see the nacelles start to spin up - my guess is that part of having the nacelles powered up is that part of their function is to reduce the ship's mass, because there's really no other way those little thrusters would be able to arrest Enterprise's fall.

Mountie1988 September 16 2013 10:24 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Quote:

drt wrote: (Post 8651272)
When the warp core came on line you can see the nacelles start to spin up - my guess is that part of having the nacelles powered up is that part of their function is to reduce the ship's mass, because there's really no other way those little thrusters would be able to arrest Enterprise's fall.

Excellent. Someone's paying attention to the Physics of Star Trek.

King Daniel Into Darkness September 16 2013 12:11 PM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Yeah, thrusters weren't the only thing firing, otherwise Enterprise would have started falling again as soon as they shut off, immediately after their rise above the clouds.

austen_pierce September 17 2013 12:20 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 8651116)
According to other Treks, the warp core powers everything aboard the starship. This is based partially on aircraft in the real world which have to electricity unless the engine is active. Indeed, practically everything had shut down on the
Enterprise, the lights even the artificial gravity which usually always stays active even when nothing else is. The warp core was needed simply to power the ship.

I attributed the loss of gravity to the loss of warp, impulse, aux, AND batteries. While warp power is primary, the other sources would kick in and provide partial power to systems when the core is off line. We've also seen this in several eps and movies. Warp core is off line but aux and impulse are used for maneuvers and operations, just no warp speed.

With gravity out and Enterprise in free fall, both warp and impulse are clearly out. But the lights in the ship are on. This power is enough to fire thrusters, so he real question is whether the shellac of thrusters could arrest E's fall, or if warp is required.

J. Allen September 17 2013 12:38 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Quote:

austen_pierce wrote: (Post 8655049)
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 8651116)
According to other Treks, the warp core powers everything aboard the starship. This is based partially on aircraft in the real world which have to electricity unless the engine is active. Indeed, practically everything had shut down on the
Enterprise, the lights even the artificial gravity which usually always stays active even when nothing else is. The warp core was needed simply to power the ship.

I attributed the loss of gravity to the loss of warp, impulse, aux, AND batteries. While warp power is primary, the other sources would kick in and provide partial power to systems when the core is off line. We've also seen this in several eps and movies. Warp core is off line but aux and impulse are used for maneuvers and operations, just no warp speed.

With gravity out and Enterprise in free fall, both warp and impulse are clearly out. But the lights in the ship are on. This power is enough to fire thrusters, so he real question is whether the shellac of thrusters could arrest E's fall, or if warp is required.

The lights in the ship are on, yes, but batteries do not equal thrusting power. It was only when power was restored that they had thruster capability. Seconds later, the warp engines begin starting up, and the ship is able to lift itself out of freefall.

22 Stars September 17 2013 12:44 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Because the Aft Nacelle was damaged? :)

J. Allen September 17 2013 12:47 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Which reminds me; I have never really thought about how much power starships had to have. Even in the Original Series, TNG, DS9, etc., at no time did I ever feel the power of these ships, even in the movies, until ST09, and STiD really hit it home. The Enterprise generates massive amounts of power. From warp speed, or pushing through an atmosphere, to firing batteries of weapons in the blink of an eye, this ship is pure, raw, barely controlled power, and I love it. For me, the last two movies have made the redesigned Enterprise my favorite ship.

M'Sharak September 17 2013 01:13 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Quote:

22 Stars wrote: (Post 8655184)
Because the Aft Nacelle was damaged? :)

Aha. The aft nacelle must be where auxiliary power comes from.

22 Stars September 17 2013 02:19 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Quote:

M'Sharak wrote: (Post 8655331)
Quote:

22 Stars wrote: (Post 8655184)
Because the Aft Nacelle was damaged? :)

Aha. The aft nacelle must be where auxiliary power comes from.

Lol, but seriously, has Orci or anyone tried to explain that lame-ass line?

austen_pierce September 17 2013 02:34 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Quote:

J. Allen wrote: (Post 8655148)
Quote:

austen_pierce wrote: (Post 8655049)
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 8651116)
According to other Treks, the warp core powers everything aboard the starship. This is based partially on aircraft in the real world which have to electricity unless the engine is active. Indeed, practically everything had shut down on the
Enterprise, the lights even the artificial gravity which usually always stays active even when nothing else is. The warp core was needed simply to power the ship.

I attributed the loss of gravity to the loss of warp, impulse, aux, AND batteries. While warp power is primary, the other sources would kick in and provide partial power to systems when the core is off line. We've also seen this in several eps and movies. Warp core is off line but aux and impulse are used for maneuvers and operations, just no warp speed.

With gravity out and Enterprise in free fall, both warp and impulse are clearly out. But the lights in the ship are on. This power is enough to fire thrusters, so he real question is whether the shellac of thrusters could arrest E's fall, or if warp is required.

The lights in the ship are on, yes, but batteries do not equal thrusting power. It was only when power was restored that they had thruster capability. Seconds later, the warp engines begin starting up, and the ship is able to lift itself out of freefall.

Batteries don't need thrusting power. The chemical reaction of the thrusters themselves do that. All you need power for is to turn them ON, and then some computational overhead to coordinate them so you don't end up doing donuts all over the sky.

J. Allen September 17 2013 02:43 AM

Re: Why do you need warp power?
 
Quote:

austen_pierce wrote: (Post 8655706)
Quote:

J. Allen wrote: (Post 8655148)
Quote:

austen_pierce wrote: (Post 8655049)

I attributed the loss of gravity to the loss of warp, impulse, aux, AND batteries. While warp power is primary, the other sources would kick in and provide partial power to systems when the core is off line. We've also seen this in several eps and movies. Warp core is off line but aux and impulse are used for maneuvers and operations, just no warp speed.

With gravity out and Enterprise in free fall, both warp and impulse are clearly out. But the lights in the ship are on. This power is enough to fire thrusters, so he real question is whether the shellac of thrusters could arrest E's fall, or if warp is required.

The lights in the ship are on, yes, but batteries do not equal thrusting power. It was only when power was restored that they had thruster capability. Seconds later, the warp engines begin starting up, and the ship is able to lift itself out of freefall.

Batteries don't need thrusting power. The chemical reaction of the thrusters themselves do that. All you need power for is to turn them ON, and then some computational overhead to coordinate them so you don't end up doing donuts all over the sky.

It depends upon what kind of thrusters are being used. You assume chemical thrusters, but perhaps the Enterprise doesn't use chemical thrusters. Even if they are chemical thrusters, how much thrust will they have? They're likely RCS type thrusters for short bursts of navigational course correction when not in warp.


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