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-   -   Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=225988)

OBXTrekkie September 16 2013 12:19 AM

Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
After watching STID several times since getting the DVD, I can't help but think they were already setting us up for a budding romance between Kirk and Carol Marcus. It's subtle but if you watch their interactions closely, it can easily be inferred that they're attracted to each other. Not just the obvious times, like when she first shows up on the shuttle, or when she's half naked telling him to turn around, but at other times too. On the bridge of the Vengance, when Khan is on his rampage, Carol looks Kirk's way several times with a little more than just concern. And when they materialize in the Enterprise brig, his first action is to move to her side. And then there's the smile on is face at the end when he's welcoming her to the crew, no mistaking that Jim Kirk "I totally thing you're hot" smile. This has just been my take on it anyway.

Thoughts?

austen_pierce September 16 2013 12:50 AM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
There has already been much speculation in other threads about a Kirk-Marcus-McCoy triangle. Of course they could always retcon her death Newt style. No one is exactly clamoring for David Marcus anyway.

iguana_tonante September 16 2013 01:22 AM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
Quote:

OBXTrekkie wrote: (Post 8650459)
After watching STID several times since getting the DVD, I can't help but think they were already setting us up for a budding romance between Kirk and Carol Marcus.

You don't say.

Gsam September 16 2013 01:29 AM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
just off of the top of my head I would say if they took the criticism about INTD lacking an original story line and have decided to go original for the next movie then I don't see how Kirk/Marcus is anything but same old, same old.

I would prefer that they go more character driven professional story line and skip the romance. They are not very good with it

Awesome Possum September 16 2013 03:36 AM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
Quote:

Gsam wrote: (Post 8650795)
just off of the top of my head I would say if they took the criticism about INTD lacking an original story line and have decided to go original for the next movie then I don't see how Kirk/Marcus is anything but same old, same old.

I would prefer that they go more character driven professional story line and skip the romance. They are not very good with it

Given that we were never shown any hint of the original Kirk/Marcus romance until over 20 years after it ended and they had a grown son that Kirk didn't know about, I'd say actually seeing them falling in love would be original. Even in TWOK it's an afterthought because they wanted to set up Kirk having a son and she's never mentioned again, while David is.

It would also be original to show Kirk in a steady relationship given that he's best known for falling for whatever woman shows up and they grease up the lens for her and then moving on.

It's the exact opposite of how they've portrayed Kirk and any woman, I welcome it.

Hythlodeus September 16 2013 02:20 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
I never get the vibe of any sort of romance between Kirk and Marcus in STiD, but instead there was very heavy flirtation between McCoy and Carol going on. I believe we will see them as a couple in the next one

Set Harth September 16 2013 02:53 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
I'm pretty sure McCoy was just taking advantage of the opportunity to make a joke.

Franklin September 16 2013 03:12 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
Quote:

Awesome Possum wrote: (Post 8651194)
Quote:

Gsam wrote: (Post 8650795)
just off of the top of my head I would say if they took the criticism about INTD lacking an original story line and have decided to go original for the next movie then I don't see how Kirk/Marcus is anything but same old, same old.

I would prefer that they go more character driven professional story line and skip the romance. They are not very good with it

Given that we were never shown any hint of the original Kirk/Marcus romance until over 20 years after it ended and they had a grown son that Kirk didn't know about, I'd say actually seeing them falling in love would be original. Even in TWOK it's an afterthought because they wanted to set up Kirk having a son and she's never mentioned again, while David is.

It would also be original to show Kirk in a steady relationship given that he's best known for falling for whatever woman shows up and they grease up the lens for her and then moving on.

It's the exact opposite of how they've portrayed Kirk and any woman, I welcome it.

It would be original, but I don't know if it would be exactly the opposite of how Kirk was portrayed. I think Kirk was always aware that his affairs with women were shallow. He always seemed to wish he could have a stable and permanent relationship, but it was impossible because of duty, or tragedy would intervene. Besides Marcus, he's said to have almost married a tech at the academy, there was Arlee Shaw, Janice Lester, Antonia, and even Edith Keeler and Miramanee. Yeoman Rand was always "look but don't touch."

So, a healthy and strong relationship between Kirk and Marcus in this case would be truly novel, but more for giving Kirk something he may have actually always wished for than being the opposite of him as love-em-and-leave-em. In fact, I'd expect their relationship to fail as Kirk starts to realize he can't make the kind of commitment he wants to make and be the type of starship captain he believes he needs to be. Kirk's life and love is the Enterprise, and no woman will replace her. He can't have both.

Mach5 September 16 2013 07:15 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
I'm all for Kirk/Carol romance, but for the love of God, recast her first. Alice Eve sucked shit.

Khan444 September 16 2013 07:20 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
I really liked Carol in STID, and they actually added to her character in that movie. She and Kirk had an attraction, that is obvious, and she's on the Enterprise now. They've set it up perfectly for a future romance. I agree that seeing Kirk and Carol actually DEVELOP a relationship would be something new. If David eventually comes along, then Kirk seeing his son grow up and not meeting him for the first time when he was already grown up would also be something new. It would also further this Kirk maturation story that's been present in both of the films.

BillJ September 16 2013 08:51 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
While writing a follow up to Into Darkness, as a personal exercise, I have Marcus and the fetus killed while she is leading a landing party in enemy territory. :devil:

Peach Wookiee September 16 2013 10:30 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
Quote:

Khan444 wrote: (Post 8653600)
I really liked Carol in STID, and they actually added to her character in that movie. She and Kirk had an attraction, that is obvious, and she's on the Enterprise now. They've set it up perfectly for a future romance. I agree that seeing Kirk and Carol actually DEVELOP a relationship would be something new. If David eventually comes along, then Kirk seeing his son grow up and not meeting him for the first time when he was already grown up would also be something new. It would also further this Kirk maturation story that's been present in both of the films.

I think I'd like that too. :)

Malaika September 17 2013 02:09 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
I think it's way too obvious that they will have a romance :lol:
How they can manage to truly develop one it's another matter though.
Let's face it: star trek had never been about romance. We already have a romance in the trilogy (Spock/Uhura) but it works because their relationship is very subtle.
With all the complains the writers received for one subtle romance, I cannot imagine how some fans would react if they add another romance and if you get more subtle than S/U you have no romance lol

That said, I thought their main reason for having Spock/Uhura was so that for once Spock could be the one with a romance instead of Kirk. It sort of challenged the cliché that Kirk always gets the girl. It also was a reminder that this is another reality and their trek. If they have a K/C romance now it will basically contradict that idea and the reason why they made that choice.
Now, I might be biased because I prefer Spock as a character and I don't want the movies to get turned in the Kirk show again frankly, but I think a romance with Spock is much more interesting, less predictable and more fitting with the theme of star trek (since he's half alien and the pair is both interracial and interspecies) Not to mention you have a legit pretext to make their romance subtle since he's a vulcan and can't get turned in the sappy boyfriend.
A Kirk/Carol romance wouldn't give me anything new. I also fear that it would unbalance K/S as protagonists all over again and not make them so equal like they should be. Kirk already has enough relationships to develop on screen: Spock, Bones and Uhura. You might even add Scotty. Plus you know know that every movie will have a scene where he's making out with some girl you will never see again.
Spock has basically only the Uhura and Kirk relationships and I'd hate to see his character development (along with the other characters like Bones, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov) get sacrificed only because they decide to add yet another connection for Kirk.
Even a Kirk/Carol friendship (I've read Orci saying that it was their original plan for the first movie) would be redundant now that they have Kirk/Uhura anyway.

drumvan September 17 2013 02:26 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
maybe in the next movie carol marcus will be the "edith keeler" for kirk and mccoy. she will die based on the actions of one of them for the benefit of the greater good. a way to once again pay homage to a past episode with a new twist.

Malaika September 17 2013 02:35 PM

Re: Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?
 
Quote:

Franklin wrote: (Post 8652439)
Kirk's life and love is the Enterprise, and no woman will replace her. He can't have both.

and yet, as much as I hate the Kirk the womanizer trope I also hate this idea that he's married to the enterprise.
It's a pet peeve of mine.

I know that from my previous comment you can tell I don't really want a Kirk/Carol romance in the next movie but it's just that I don't think they can truly develop another romance only in the last movie when the existing romance of this trilogy (that is there since the first movie) is already very subtle. With S/U at least you have the plot device that they were already a couple when the story started so you don't need to see how they got together (which is honestly the genius here) and it isn't the be all and the end of all of the story.

If this was a television series then I'd be all for a Kirk/romance but since there is - possibly- only one movie left I don't want existing relationships to get sacrificed just for the sake of adding more things to develop when you have hardly the time develop the existing ones. Aside from S/U (whom I find more interesting as a romance than any possible human/human romances I could get with Kirk) take the Kirk/Bones friendship too for example (and my naive hope to see more interactions between the secondary characters)
In short: Quality >>> quantity.


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