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-   -   Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=225556)

Lance September 12 2013 01:59 AM

Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
In The Search For Spock, we see the lovely Grace Lee Whitney in an cameo as a Starfleet officer who watches bemusedly as the heavily battle damaged Enterprise comes back into spacedock.

Of course, Grace was most well known for playing Janice Rand, a role she had played in The Original Series, reprised in The Motion Picture, and would again reprise in The Undiscovered Country. But here, in TSFS, she is credited simply as 'woman in cafeteria'. Although it is Grace Lee Whitney, there is no indication at all whether or not she is, in fact, playing Janice Rand.

What do we think? Is it Janice? Or is it simply intended as an amusing cameo for the fans, for those who are keen-eyed enough to spot who the actress is?

I understand that some of the novels set during that time have assumed that it's Janice. But what do you guys think? :)

Sran September 12 2013 02:02 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
I've always thought of the woman as Janice whether the credits say so or not. It's a nice touch and makes sense given her facial expression and body language. She shakes her head as if to say, "What the hell have they gotten themselves into now?" Whether she knew that Spock had died isn't clear, but she clearly has the look of someone who knows the people on board the ship.

--Sran

CorporalClegg September 12 2013 02:02 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Since we know Rand wound up on Excelsior anyway, it's hard to imagine why someone who looks just like her would be in the cafeteria the same time Excelsior was in dock.

teacake September 12 2013 04:32 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Is there a reason she wasn't named as Rand?

Santa Kang September 12 2013 04:36 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
That was her cousin Ayn.

Dukhat September 12 2013 05:18 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Of course it's Rand. Without a freaking doubt. If anything, the shmuck who wrote up the credits probably didn't know her character name.

Rķu rķu, chķu September 12 2013 06:05 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Quote:

Nerys Myk wrote: (Post 8634163)
That was her cousin Ayn.

:lol:

I just hope she doesn't have a son named Paul...

@Clegg: Assuming that was Janice, she still has time. She served on Excelsior in 2291, during the events of ST VI. The cafeteria scene is in ST III which is in 2285. So she has plenty of time to transfer.

Avro Arrow September 12 2013 06:10 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
OTOH, "Woman in Cafeteria" was a full commander, and prior to TUC, Rand was always portrayed as an NCO. Even when she went mustang in TUC, I believe she was still only a Lt. JG.

Leto_II September 12 2013 06:58 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Although in the VOY episode "Flashback" (concurrent with The Undiscovered Country), Rand has the rank of Commander or Lt. Commander, from what I remember.

Basically, the whole Rand rank-issue is another discontinuity from that episode (alongside Lt. Valtane "dying," then showing up perfectly alive and well on the viewscreen at the end of the movie).

Imperfections in Tuvok's memory-engrams from the events in that storyline, maybe?

F. King Daniel September 12 2013 07:33 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
She kept messing up her rank insignia on purpose, trying to make new Starfleet recruit Valaris feel more at home.

And of course it's Janice.

Noddy September 12 2013 11:47 AM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
In TVH, she wears a, erm, midshipman's uniform? What happened to her commander status in TSFS?

Smellmet September 12 2013 01:07 PM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8633623)
I've always thought of the woman as Janice whether the credits say so or not. It's a nice touch and makes sense given her facial expression and body language. She shakes her head as if to say, "What the hell have they gotten themselves into now?" Whether she knew that Spock had died isn't clear, but she clearly has the look of someone who knows the people on board the ship.

--Sran

Thats the way I've always interpreted that scene. It's the same same look a mother gives to her kids when they come in covered in mud

Robert Comsol September 12 2013 01:23 PM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8633623)
She shakes her head as if to say, "What the hell have they gotten themselves into now?" Whether she knew that Spock had died isn't clear, but she clearly has the look of someone who knows the people on board the ship.

I wholeheartedly agree. The people in the cafeteria / lounge seem surprised to see the Enterprise battle-damaged like that, therefore I assume this is rather Excelsior personnel enjoying free time than a "welcome home" committee.

For what it's worth the original pre-production sketch of this scene featured the Excelsior alongside instead of the Enterprise.

And in ST VI we see here serve on the Excelsior under Captain Sulu. Maybe in ST III it was not her shift on the bridge, that's why we didn't see her there already.

And it's a good thing to think she was already aboard the Excelsior under Captain Styles. At least it wouldn't look like she was asking her old "friend" Sulu for a favor, but got there on her own ("The Man Trap", were the two lovers?).

Had I not seen publicity stills of her with the Vulcan salute from ST IV I probably would not have noticed her. I don't really think she was supposed to actually play Janice Rand, but it was a nice insider thing for the fans to notice. :)

Bob

Rķu rķu, chķu September 12 2013 01:32 PM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Quote:

Noddy wrote: (Post 8634739)
In TVH, she wears a, erm, midshipman's uniform?

No, she doesn't. That character was not Rand.

Rand herself appears standing next to the 'table' with Pres. Roth and Adm. Cartwright, and is in an officer uniform, but she doesn't have any lines.

Therin of Andor September 12 2013 01:54 PM

Re: Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?
 
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 8633614)
But here, in TSFS, she is credited simply as 'woman in cafeteria'. Although it is Grace Lee Whitney, there is no indication at all whether or not she is, in fact, playing Janice Rand.

I first met GLW at an Australian Trek convention not long after ST II came out. She was quite saddened not to have been asked back for ST II, but Rand was still aboard, as Transporter Chief, in Vonda McIntyre's novelization.

Having volunteered to collect GLW from Sydney's domestic terminal and escort her to the international terminal, I forged a bit of a connection and she invited me to visit her at work when I came to LA. At the time, her regular day job was at an actors' agency (its office had a creek-like water feature running through it!), and she looked after the likes of Ted Shackleford ("Knott's Landing") and soon-to-be-late Jon-Erik Hexum ("Voyagers!", "Cover Up").

When I arrived, in the January of 1984, filming of ST III had not long been completed and someone I met from the production mentioned in one breath that there was a secret cameo, and in a different breath mentioned having seen GLW at the wrap party!

When I caught up with GLW, I told her what I suspected and she was thrilled to be able to chat about her role, but that yes, it was still meant to be top secret, so I actually kept it quiet till preview night Down Under. It was a last-minute favour granted by Nimoy, and filming of the Spacedock Cafeteria scene was at ILM, after principal photography had ended. So yes, it's supposed to be Rand, but the uniform had commander rank on it. (She originally said it was "the same as Kirk's", so I almost expected they'd accidentally given her admiral or captain insignia.) GLW looked amazing and she was extremely happy with the scene; Robert Wise had ordered her to remove her glam makeup for TMP, and she'd been devastated how harshly the camera had treated her.

People will argue that it's not Rand in ST III, but the tears were meant to indicate that it was indeed Rand, watching her old, damaged home limp into dock.

Coincidentally, Rand and Chapel's sudden disappearance from the Enterprise in the novelizations fits with the mention of Firenz (in the ST II novelization) being sent to retrieve the injured cadets and take them back ahead of time for medical treatment.

Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 8634151)
Is there a reason she wasn't named as Rand?

Yes. It's a cameo. No lines to appear in the script. The scene wasn't even filmed until after principal photography ended. It was Directorial intention (ie. Nimoy) to make the character Rand.

Quote:

INT. SPACEDOCK - THE CAFETERIA (FX SHOT WITH ILM 36 ELEMENTS) THROUGH THE WINDOW of a Spacedock facility, a few lounging Starfleet persons look up to see a memorable sight...

... battle-scarred
Enterprise is passing alongside of the sleek Excelsior. Their size differential is apparent (B-29 to B-17). Yet, Enterprise carries with her a battle-scarred history of achievement. Some of the Starfleet people begin to rise, silently. A standing ovation for a hero's return.
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 8634892)
Quote:

Noddy wrote: (Post 8634739)
In TVH, she wears a, erm, midshipman's uniform?

No, she doesn't. That character was not Rand.

Rand herself appears standing next to the 'table' with Pres. Roth and Adm. Cartwright, and is in an officer uniform, but she doesn't have any lines.

You are incorrect. She most definitely is in the jumpsuit and has scripted lines in ST IV, but they comprise background dialogue, and were included in appendices to to the main script.

She's in officer uniform in ST III (and ST VI and "Flashback"), but a jumpsuit in ST IV.

Here's a pic:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Jani...%252C_2286.jpg

Her character does appear briefly in the DC Comics that led up to the ST IV adaptation, and she's in an officer's uniform in those frames, as Cartwright's assistant.

Quote:

Robert Comsol wrote: (Post 8634874)
Had I not seen publicity stills of her with the Vulcan salute from ST IV I probably would not have noticed her. I don't really think she was supposed to actually play Janice Rand, but it was a nice insider thing for the fans to notice. :)

Oh yes she was! And she and Majel Barrett even got together before their studio call and rehearsed their lines together, because they knew they'd probably be little more than background players on the day of filming.

In "Starlog", GLW mentioned how they were trying to ascertain a rank to fit her ST IV outfit and insignia. She remembered being called "Chief" in TMP, so they settled on Chief Petty Officer for ST IV.


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