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-   -   Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=225235)

austen_pierce September 8 2013 05:58 PM

Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, after Spock rescues Kirk from Rura Penthe, the two devise an elaborate ruse to draw Valeris into revealing herself as the head operative aboard Enterprise. I have a couple of problems with this, most of which can be explained away following the mind meld. Did they ever get the rest of the operatives? How did they know Valeris was running the show and not just another pawn / assassin? Anyway, what I really want to know of at least get your perspectives on is whether or not Spock transferred his Katra into Kirk as a precautionary measure lest the assassin decide to shoot first. After all, Spock does say "you must shoot, if you are logical", leading me to think that by that time he suspected Valeris. Kirk says "I'd rather you didn't" looking like death warmed over himself, which is understandable given that he'd been on the prison asteroid. But I've also wondered if Kirk's statement is more telling. Was he at the time carrying Spock's Katra? Did his words then really mean hat he'd rather not undergo a repeat of TSFS?

Sran September 8 2013 06:09 PM

Re: Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
^Interesting question. I don't think so because both he and Kirk already seemed to have an idea of Valeris' involvement in the conspiracy (Kirk's log entry being used at trial; Valeris' questions to Spock about turning points). Spock didn't seem surprised that Valeris had come to sickbay to kill the crewmen but disappointed. That could suggest Spock would have prepared for his death ahead of time, but I think his statement about Valeris shooting him because it was logical that she follow through on what she'd committed to was more an observation than it was a dare. He already knew she wouldn't do it.

--Sran

jpv2000 September 8 2013 07:34 PM

Re: Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8616832)
^Interesting question. I don't think so because both he and Kirk already seemed to have an idea of Valeris' involvement in the conspiracy (Kirk's log entry being used at trial; Valeris' questions to Spock about turning points). Spock didn't seem surprised that Valeris had come to sickbay to kill the crewmen but disappointed. That could suggest Spock would have prepared for his death ahead of time, but I think his statement about Valeris shooting him because it was logical that she follow through on what she'd committed to was more an observation than it was a dare. He already knew she wouldn't do it.

That is my impression as well.

Tosk September 9 2013 05:06 AM

Re: Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
Honestly, I can't see Spock dropping his katra into someone else every time he planned on doing something dangerous.

Therin of Andor September 9 2013 12:13 PM

Re: Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
Quote:

Tosk wrote: (Post 8619265)
Honestly, I can't see Spock dropping his katra into someone else every time he planned on doing something dangerous.

Nurse Chapel has Spock's katra when Henoch destroys the globe containing Spock's essence in "Return to Tomorrow". (Of course, then we didn't know it was called a katra.)

Sran September 9 2013 02:24 PM

Re: Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
Quote:

Tosk wrote: (Post 8619265)
Honestly, I can't see Spock dropping his katra into someone else every time he planned on doing something dangerous.

Agreed. And I think people need to keep something in mind. When Spock gave his katra to McCoy in TWOK, he knew he was going to die. He'd already made the decision to sacrifice himself to save the Enterprise while on the bridge (you can see him pause just before he leaves his station). Transferring the katra to McCoy was his way of closing the loop. It's not something he would do every time he entered into a dangerous situation.

--Sran

jpv2000 September 9 2013 05:46 PM

Re: Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 8619925)
Nurse Chapel has Spock's katra when Henoch destroys the globe containing Spock's essence in "Return to Tomorow"

True. I had forgotten about that.

Tosk September 10 2013 04:46 AM

Re: Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 8619925)
Quote:

Tosk wrote: (Post 8619265)
Honestly, I can't see Spock dropping his katra into someone else every time he planned on doing something dangerous.

Nurse Chapel has Spock's katra when Henoch destroys the globe containing Spock's essence in "Return to Tomorrow". (Of course, then we didn't know it was called a katra.)

It's been a long time since I saw that one, but the transfer wasn't done by Spock, was it?

Therin of Andor September 10 2013 08:05 AM

Re: Did Kirk Have Spock's Katra?
 
Quote:

Tosk wrote: (Post 8624089)
the transfer wasn't done by Spock, was it?

The transfer was offscreen. Sargon did it to trick Henoch.


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