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Nine of Four August 27 2013 09:32 PM

Transporters too Good
 
The events in these movies occurred before those of The Original Series TV show, yet the transporter technology far outmatched that of any series.:confused:

M'Sharak August 27 2013 09:39 PM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Quote:

Nine of Four wrote: (Post 8564002)
The events in these movies occurred before those of The Original Series TV show, yet the transporter technology far outmatched that of any series.:confused:

Outmatches the standard tech seen in pretty much every episode, true, but the transwarp transporter in these movies is presented as experimental tech and thus not without a certain amount of imprecision (i.e., it's riskier to use than standard tech.) Further, examples have been pointed out in previous threads on this topic of more or less comparable transporter tech being used in one or more TV series.

Nine of Four August 27 2013 09:45 PM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Quote:

M'Sharak wrote: (Post 8564026)
......transwarp transporter in these movies is presented as experimental tech.......

Best scene in the movie, when Scotty is stuck in those tubes!!! :rommie:

F. King Daniel August 27 2013 10:23 PM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Quote:

Nine of Four wrote: (Post 8564002)
The events in these movies occurred before those of The Original Series TV show, yet the transporter technology far outmatched that of any series.:confused:

You mean the transwarp beaming equation which Old Spock showed Scotty in the first movie, and was later used by Khan to beam from Earth to Kronos? It's from the future, that's why. Old Spock comes from 7 years after Star Trek Nemesis.

Timo August 27 2013 10:33 PM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
If anything, the standard late 2250s transporters appear more primitive than the ones Kirk used in TOS a decade later. They have trouble locking onto falling people, they feature manual (joystick) targeting as a prominent option, and the transporter room appears to feature "radiation shielding". But the difference to TOS probably isn't all that great, and "shielding" for the transporter operator reappears in the TOS movies. (Or is that just a splatter screen that keeps the operator clean in all situations, including those where the structural integrity of the transportee is compromised?)

Timo Saloniemi

iguana_tonante August 27 2013 10:37 PM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Poor Sonak. :(

CorporalClegg August 27 2013 11:32 PM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Just assume the Transwarp beaming thing is a 24c technology.

The way I figure it is this: Scotty comes up with the idea (in primeverse) around the same time he does in nuVerse, but doesn't have the tools or know-how to really make it work. And it becomes one of those projects people tinker on throughout their careers. He uses Spock to bounce ideas off from time to time since he's the one mostly likely to have some insight. He eventually brings it with him on the Jenolan as something to do in retirement and mentions it Picard in passing. Geordi, Data, and O'Brien hear about it and ask Scotty to show them. He does, and then it becomes their life-long project.

Eventually one of them cracks the nut. Spock hears about it and calls 'em up to ask because he had an invested interest.

Then, of course, he ends up taking it back in time with him. nuScotty is able to reverse-engineer (The Chiefs?) wizardry because it was still so close to his own.

Khan can do the same because he's uber smart.

Yeah. That's really convoluted and probably not worth the effort. It's best to just say to yourself "It's magic!" and move on.

F. King Daniel August 27 2013 11:39 PM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Sequece of events:

Scotty Prime perfects his transwarp formula after his TNG-era resurrection. He tells Spock Prime.

Spock Prime goes back in time and shows Scotty. Scotty and Kirk beam from Delta Vega to the warping Enterprise and later Kirk and Spock beam from the Enterprise (over Titan) to Narada (over Earth)

Section 31 confiscates the equation from Scotty, and builds the portable transwarp beaming device. Khan steals it and beams from Earth to Kronos.



With Section 31's R+D facility beneath London destroyed, I think the formula's been lost. It's only in Spock Prime's head, now.

WarpFactorZ August 28 2013 12:57 AM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
If the they're transporters to good, does that also mean they're transporters from evil. And do they transport in daily bread?

ComicGuy89 August 28 2013 02:15 AM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8564575)
Sequece of events:

Scotty Prime perfects his transwarp formula after his TNG-era resurrection. He tells Spock Prime.

Spock Prime goes back in time and shows Scotty. Scotty and Kirk beam from Delta Vega to the warping Enterprise and later Kirk and Spock beam from the Enterprise (over Titan) to Narada (over Earth)

Section 31 confiscates the equation from Scotty, and builds the portable transwarp beaming device. Khan steals it and beams from Earth to Kronos.

With Section 31's R+D facility beneath London destroyed, I think the formula's been lost. It's only in Spock Prime's head, now.

Having the Transwarp beaming equation lost and present only in Spock Prime's (or possibly Scotty's) mind would be good for the franchise. It would be like how in Harry Potter, J.K. Rowling decided to destroy all the time turners in the 5th book to avoid opening a can of worms.

Set Harth August 28 2013 02:52 AM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8564575)
Scotty Prime perfects his transwarp formula after his TNG-era resurrection. He tells Spock Prime.

Strangely, neither of them tell the Federation.

PLOT HOOOOOOOOOOOOLE :p

ComicGuy89 August 28 2013 03:03 AM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
Quote:

Set Harth wrote: (Post 8565316)
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8564575)
Scotty Prime perfects his transwarp formula after his TNG-era resurrection. He tells Spock Prime.

Strangely, neither of them tell the Federation.

PLOT HOOOOOOOOOOOOLE :p

Nothing wrong with that, it's not as if the post-Dominion War Federation was that benevolent at that time to not misuse the technology.

Besides, who's to say they didn't tell the Federation? Movies make no mention of that.

F. King Daniel August 28 2013 07:53 PM

Re: Transporters to Good
 
In 2387 people could be transwarp beaming everywhere, for all we know.



BUT, I just remembered that we saw the vert similar "subspace beaming" in the Next Gen episode "Bloodlines". Bok and Picard beam several light-years, with only a minor modification to the transporter. Odd that they seem to forget they can do that...


LAFORGE: We think he's using some sort of subspace transporter to beam aboard the Enterprise.

PICARD: My understanding is that such devices were impractical.

DATA: The Federation abandoned its research in the field because the technology was found to be unreliable, as well as energy intensive.

LAFORGE: In order to transport matter through subspace, you have to put it into a state of quantum flux. It's very unstable.

PICARD: What range would that kind of transporter have?

DATA: In theory it could operate over several light years.

http://www.chakoteya.net/nextgen/274.htm

Timo August 28 2013 08:27 PM

Re: Transporters too Good
 
In addition to "Bloodlines", there's also "High Ground" where likewise our heroes agree that super-transporters are known to the Federation but impractical and unsafe and therefore not in use. Sounds consistent to me; it seems that ol' Emory Erickson already had it all figured out, but his research proved that super-transporters were not worth the hassle.

Not until Scotty's improvements, that is. Or then Scotty only made the devices a tad less lethal, but that was enough for Spock Prime's purposes of stopping Nero; Spock wouldn't have worried all that much about the personal safety of Kirk at that point.

Quote:

Section 31 confiscates the equation from Scotty, and builds the portable transwarp beaming device. Khan steals it and beams from Earth to Kronos.
Or Marcus hands over the device to Khan so that Khan can go to Kronos and become a convenient target for Marcus' torpedoes. Khan may be fooled into thinking he stole the device from Marcus against the Admiral's will, or he may be fooled into thinking that his going to Kronos is to some different purpose and will not result in his death. Or then Khan is supposed to be fooled that way, but knows from the get-go how Marcus is betraying him, yet plays along because he also knows how to save his own ass.

Timo Saloniemi

CorporalClegg August 28 2013 08:31 PM

Re: Transporters too Good
 
Could the HUP be used as an excuse for why Starfleet doesn't use the transwarp beaming regularly? I admit I know very little about that stuff, but I'm sure they could have Scotty throw in some unobtrusive exposition (a simple line or two) in the next film about how the Heisenberg Compensators lack the sophistication to transwarp beam within acceptable safety levels or something like that.


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