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-   -   Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers) (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=223645)

Hoshi3 August 24 2013 07:04 PM

Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Admiral Janeway went back in time to get Voyager home early. While doing that, she also destroyed the Unicomplex. The thing is, it doesn't really make sense. Since Voyager got home earlier than they should have, admiral Janeway would most likely not have gone to the past and never have destroyed the Unicomplex. Right? :confused:

Dr. Sevrin August 24 2013 07:11 PM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Yeah, it's a classic paradox, which is often the problem in time travel stories.

F. King Daniel August 25 2013 12:23 AM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Most Trek time travels don't work like that. What winds up in that past, stays in the past and usually nothing vanishes. Cos if you think about it, if Admiral Janeway vanished, then she'd never have gone back in time and Voyager would never get back early and the whole thing undoes itself.:cardie:

Dr. Sevrin August 25 2013 12:43 AM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
I once tried to write a story where the Enterprise-D was knocked forward in time while monitoring the test of a new propulsion system. In that future, the Federation, the Klingon, and the Romulan Empires didn't exist because Enterprise wasn't around to defeat a new threat to the galaxy. But I couldn't figure a way out of the box. While I was working on it, TNG: New Ground aired with a similar subplot of a new propulsion system, so I gave up. I was trying to write spec scripts at the time, and each time I'd get halfway through one, there'd be an episode or preview with elements of whatever story I was working on at the time. It happened at least 3 times, so at least I knew I was on the right wavelength.

Lt. Uhura-Brown August 25 2013 01:38 AM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
If she'd arrived three days before Voyager encountered the transwarp hub instead of three days after, the entire situation could have been avoided.

Set up the Bat-Voyager, then second aperture to the right and straight on 'til home.

Guy Gardener August 26 2013 08:06 AM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Hoshi, the answer to your question is: Sela Yar.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeanwhile...

Had KJ appeared on scene 6 days earlier, then Joe wouldn't be breathing dirt.

Maybe 8 days?

9 at a stretch.

The Destruction of the Unicomplex and accompanying regicide did not require Voyagers participation in the slightest.

If the Admiral killed the Queen, and the Borg fell to pieces a week before Janeway found the Hub, wouldn't the crew have been able to do wonders after they found the powered down hub and dozens of out of comission Cubes in that Nebula?

Although dealing with the hub and whatever junkyard doglike parasitic power resided near by thinking they could salvage the Hub since it's literally legal fricking Salvage after the Borg had all died, wouldn't that have been a pefect bookend for what happened with Caretakers Array?

"Sigh".

Although they couldn't call the Hub an Array.

Say this word out loud and try not to smirk... Borgarray.

Doesn't it sound almost like Buggery?

For years we've been saying that there was criminaly no pink agenda on Voayger, and this just goes one step further proving that the producers were deathly affraid of introducing the audience to a familiarity with Borgarray.

R. Star August 26 2013 09:05 AM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Just look at how they dealt with the time travel paradoxes in Relativity. All kinds of random crap going on... they don't care. ;)

Guy Gardener August 26 2013 09:10 AM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
There were no paradoxes in Relativity.

They kept writing over timelines with new continuity.

Of course, if you're outside time or shielded, you don't get overwrit when your history disappears from underneath your footing.

KaraBear August 26 2013 06:09 PM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8557396)
Just look at how they dealt with the time travel paradoxes in Relativity. All kinds of random crap going on... they don't care. ;)

they didn't have any paradoxes in relativity

Timo August 26 2013 06:16 PM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Quote:

The Destruction of the Unicomplex and accompanying regicide did not require Voyagers participation in the slightest.
But that wasn't part of Admiral Janeway's original plan. She had no interest in hurting or destroying the Borg, only in allowing the hero ship to safely slip into one of those transwarp conduits.

Arriving early and destroying the hub wouldn't really meet the Admiral's primary goal of getting Tuvok home in time for his pills. At least not assuredly so...

Timo Saloniemi

KaraBear August 26 2013 06:34 PM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 8559040)
Quote:

The Destruction of the Unicomplex and accompanying regicide did not require Voyagers participation in the slightest.
But that wasn't part of Admiral Janeway's original plan. She had no interest in hurting or destroying the Borg, only in allowing the hero ship to safely slip into one of those transwarp conduits.

Arriving early and destroying the hub wouldn't really meet the Admiral's primary goal of getting Tuvok home in time for his pills. At least not assuredly so...

Timo Saloniemi

Exactly, she didn't want to go after the Borg, she kind of flipped a bit when young janeway suggested it. She brought the torpedoes and armor so they could zoom past any cubes and go right into the hub

Guy Gardener August 26 2013 11:09 PM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
She was a lying trollop.

If the former science officer of the Al-Batani was too fricking stupid to notice that her cloak was incompatible with Voyager, take a step back and wonder what other holes there are in her master plan that aren't so easy to spy?

Sneak through = Cloak.

Fight through and destroy the Borg = Batmobile armour and torpedoes.

Hell.

It only would have been 50 trips at most, and taken a couple days if Janeway had just slipped the crew home in her cloaked shuttle through the Borg transwarp network piecemeal, if they had decided to leave Voyager behind. And you know that that means that they'd have to scuttle it... The Doctor is an idiot from eye of the Needle thinking that he would just hang out in Sick bay forever after the ship had been abandoned.

Janeway is egregious and difficult.

She resists the will of her betters who know better.

Janeway knows this.

So Janeway gave Janeway something to rebel against, forcing her to do exactly what her older self always wanted her to do, by insisting that that is NOT what she wanted to do.

MacLeod August 26 2013 11:55 PM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
I hate Temporal mecahnics.

But what should have happend is in the future starfleet would have monitored Janeway's escapdes and sent back people to undo her changes. After all VOY introduced the concept that in the future the Federation monitors the timeline so "Endgame" should never have happened and VOY should still be on her way home.

Guy Gardener August 27 2013 12:35 AM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
But there are whales in the 24th century.

R. Star August 27 2013 01:05 AM

Re: Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)
 
Guess we're screwed if the dodo birds send a giant probe.


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