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-   -   Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth! (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=223438)

jazzstick August 22 2013 07:54 PM

Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Hey Everybody!

I often wonder if the reason this show was not half as good as it could have been was because they wanted to kill the franchise off all together. Everytime I watch the show I see the array of talent that was on the writing staff and it doesn't add up. Is it possible that they just did a half assed job and fell on the Bath'Leth just to kill the whole thing off slowly?

Your thoughts?

SpHeRe31459 August 22 2013 08:32 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
I don't think the staff did it, it sure seems like it came from network higher ups, and their ridiculous notions of what would and wouldn't sell, what was and wasn't trendy, etc.

Also the network was the one insisting on immediately going into production on ENT the second VOY was wrapped. No one else wanted that, not B&B, in the S2 docs even Scott Bakula says he tried to use his clout to tell the network to wait a while before starting ENT, to no avail. So they ended up pushing ENT through in the same year and burning everyone out.

It sure sounds like the UPN/Paramount execs who watched Trek be a consistent cash cow throughout the '90s just couldn't see that it was being pushed too much. They just wanted another show using the same previously successful formula.

Something that Gene Roddenberry was able to side-step by going the syndication route with TNG (and DS9), there was no network pushing him. Trek then being tied to a network (a mediocre one at that), UPN, really seems like a large portion of the undoing/oversaturation.

In the Season 2 BD docs, one of the S1/S2 writing staff (Mike Sussman I think, can't remember now it's been over a week since I watched it) interviewed, says something like "we didn't set out to make a bad show".

Braga and Berman both take some responsibility too. Braga still seems to take things very personally. He admits that he should have fought for a proper prequel more, when the network wanted more of the same (i.e. VOY style), instead he acquiesced and freely admits he shoehorned in the temporal cold war stuff to appease them.

Berman also very briefly says perhaps he stuck a little to staunchly too his "What would Gene do?" mantra.

BillJ August 22 2013 08:43 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
As a series it was hit or miss. But I don't think anyone intentionally did bad work to get it cancelled. Why would someone rip up their own meal ticket?

SpHeRe31459 August 22 2013 08:47 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8541769)
As a series it was hit or miss. But I don't think anyone intentionally did bad work to get it cancelled. Why would someone rip up their own meal ticket?

Succinctly put :)

feek61 August 22 2013 09:03 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

jazzstick wrote: (Post 8541508)
Hey Everybody!

I know I'm going to catch some heat from my fellow Trekkies who really like Enterprise, but I for one couldn't stand it! I

Your thoughts?

Well why post such a baiting topic then? Do you go to the DS9 section or Voyager section and post how bad they are? It still amazes me how people want to talk about how bad something is instead of how good something else is. I guess I'm just different. I frankly don't care if you can't stand it or not but why post here? I can't even imagine myself going over to the DS9 section and posting about how much I hate it and how bad the acting and characters and stories and story arcs were. I don't get it.

BillJ August 22 2013 09:21 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

feek61 wrote: (Post 8541883)
I can't even imagine myself going over to the DS9 section and posting about how much I hate it and how bad the acting and characters and stories and story arcs were. I don't get it.

This! :techman:

jazzstick August 22 2013 09:53 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8541769)
As a series it was hit or miss. But I don't think anyone intentionally did bad work to get it cancelled. Why would someone rip up their own meal ticket?

Quote:

feek61 wrote: (Post 8541883)
Quote:

jazzstick wrote: (Post 8541508)
Hey Everybody!

I know I'm going to catch some heat from my fellow Trekkies who really like Enterprise, but I for one couldn't stand it! I

Your thoughts?

Well why post such a baiting topic then? Do you go to the DS9 section or Voyager section and post how bad they are? It still amazes me how people want to talk about how bad something is instead of how good something else is. I guess I'm just different. I frankly don't care if you can't stand it or not but why post here? I can't even imagine myself going over to the DS9 section and posting about how much I hate it and how bad the acting and characters and stories and story arcs were. I don't get it.

And there's the Heat™!



I agree why rip up your own meal ticket, which would be my first thought but how could this show miss with those writers it just doesn't make any sense!

Ok so if they didn't rip up their own meal ticket how do you explain the misses? Where they trying to make Star Trek more appealing to an audience outside the normal Trek watching group and it back fired?

Melakon August 22 2013 09:56 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

jazzstick wrote: (Post 8541508)
. . .I for one couldn't stand it! . . .Your thoughts?

There are lots of subforums and threads on this board on subjects that I either have no interest in, think were bad shows, or take positions I don't agree with.

I don't feel the need to go dropping into those subforums or threads to create new threads to tell them so.

jazzstick August 22 2013 09:59 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

jazzstick wrote: (Post 8541508)
Hey Everybody!

I often wonder if the reason this show was not half as good as it could have been was because they wanted to kill the franchise off all together. Everytime I watch the show I see the array of talent that was on the writing staff and it doesn't add up. Is it possible that they just did a half assed job and fell on the Bath'Leth just to kill the whole thing off slowly?

Your thoughts?


Better???

R. Star August 22 2013 10:45 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Great... so now we have Star Trek conspiracy theories.

While we're at it, Wolf 359 was an inside job!

Mysterion August 22 2013 10:59 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
To the OP: No. If Paramount/CBS, or whomever wanted to "kill the franchise" they could have simply just stopped making it. Period. Why spend the time. money and effort to "sink" something you don't have to build in the first place?

As to the issue of posting negative comment: So, we should only post positive comments? I will agree that it's a bit douchy to deliberately troll a sub-forum to generate a crap-storm, but if I am partof a discussion about a particular program (even it that programs discussion forum), I will express myself honestly, as we all should.

jazzstick August 22 2013 11:25 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8542342)
Great... so now we have Star Trek conspiracy theories.

While we're at it, Wolf 359 was an inside job!

Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8542342)
Great... so now we have Star Trek conspiracy theories.

While we're at it, Wolf 359 was an inside job!


Well if you think about it....

Trek has always been an example of a future where mankind over comes the issues that we have today, as well as a place of inspiration for those who made a lot of the technology we enjoy today.

As Mark Twain put it in Times Arrow and I'm paraphrasing:

"Rich men stand on the backs of the poor, and power is an end on to its, and you're telling me that's not how it is anymore?"


A future that Star Trek shows would be a threat to those currently in power and trying to control socitiy and the media as well as those on top of the food chain so to speak. If this exsample of a better future was not around neither would the power it has to inspire! I guess this would only work if the work goverments started rounding up Trek DVDs but you see what I'm getting at, its not without its large flaws...

dub August 22 2013 11:43 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
I think the better way to phrase the question is:

Why did the show get canceled in season 4 when all of the other spin-offs had 7 seasons?

That offers the question without injecting your view of the people behind the show doing a "half assed job" (unless you were trying to get a rise out of people).

Anyway, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess would be the ratings had something to do with it. And why were the ratings so low? People who love the series will tell you there are lots of factors (like over-saturation of Trek, studio interference, and other reasons). People who hate the show will tell you it's because the show sucked (and some people who say the show sucked didn't even watch all of it, and they admit it on this board)! And you know, it's kind of hard to blame its downfall on the series being lackluster when clearly the number of people tuning in for Trek was nosediving long before ENT. I would even argue that declining box office receipts for the TNG films contributed to the downfall of Trek on TV.

Anyway, here are the ratings for your analyzing pleasure:

http://www.madmind.de/wp-content/upl...lsenrating.jpg

And full disclosure: I enjoyed the series, and absolutely LOVED season 3!

Melakon August 22 2013 11:52 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

dub wrote: (Post 8542714)
. . .People who hate the show will tell you it's because the show sucked (and some people who say the show sucked didn't even watch all of it, and they admit it on this board)!

Whatever happened to that guy? He disappeared in May.

Oddly, although I wasn't seeing the graphic within the thread, when I quoted the comment, it appeared. Unless you changed the filename while I was typing this. And now I'm seeing after this post.

jazzstick August 22 2013 11:52 PM

Re: Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!
 
Quote:

Mysterion wrote: (Post 8542468)

As to the issue of posting negative comment: So, we should only post positive comments? I will agree that it's a bit douchy to deliberately troll a sub-forum to generate a crap-storm, but if I am partof a discussion about a particular program (even it that programs discussion forum), I will express myself honestly, as we all should.


Not trying to troll here guys, I like this forum I really want to add to the disscussion, I was however just sharing my honset opinion on the subject along with the question, I didn't think it would cause some of you to get your blue Trek panties in a bunch, please beleive me when I say that was not my intention!


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