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-   -   Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS] (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=223264)

serenitytrek1 August 21 2013 12:16 AM

Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
BC's character should have stayed as John Harrison. The guy is flawless, now that I have seen STiD multiple times, I strongly believe that he should get nominated for an Oscar, If they could nominate Ledger why not him?


The only thing that spoils BC in this film was that he was Khan. Am sure with some of the backlash STiD has received, Orci and CO are probably regretting it and pulling their hairs out about some of the bad decisions they made in this film. (Another bad decision was the Khan scream by Spock) However this is just my personal opinion.

If BC was just a brand new character to the Trek Universe, it would have been beyond genius. BC was just so great in this film. All Trek fans were blessed to have him. Apparently some Star Wars fans are begging JJ to cast him in episode 7.:lol:


If only he had not been Khan. Trek could have created a brand new iconic villain for this generation solely because of BC's great acting, cool demeanour and enduring presence on screen.

Cinema Geekly August 21 2013 12:50 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Quote:

serenitytrek1 wrote: (Post 8532793)
Am sure with some of the backlash STiD has received, Orci and CO are probably regretting it and pulling their hairs out about some of the bad decisions they made in this film.

If by backlash you mean the vocal minority of Trek fans (the majority of which were already preconditioned to hate this film because of the last) then nope.

If that was a factor they would have never made another movie those same people hated the first film with a passion.

That has been the only real backlash. It was still critically well received, did great box office numbers, and exceeded expectations overseas.

They were always going to do Khan, never were they not. As Orci has stated "when your given a box of toys to play with, you always take out the coolest ones first".

While the original premise of the ST09 was that it wasn't a super strict reboot (because they did include elements from the Prime Universe) it was still a reboot, and when you do a reboot you are going back and doing old characters for a new generation.

Hober Mallow August 21 2013 01:06 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Quote:

serenitytrek1 wrote: (Post 8532793)
BC's character should have stayed as John Harrison. The guy is flawless, now that I have seen STiD multiple times, I strongly believe that he should get nominated for an Oscar, If they could nominate Ledger why not him?

I'm a huge fan of Cumberbatch, but... Oscar? He was the best thing about the film for me, but I don't think he did anything Oscar-worthy.

Quote:

The only thing that spoils BC in this film was that he was Khan. Am sure with some of the backlash STiD has received, Orci and CO are probably regretting it and pulling their hairs out about some of the bad decisions they made in this film.
I've no doubt that Cumberbatch will be back as Khan for the next film.

BillJ August 21 2013 01:08 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Quote:

serenitytrek1 wrote: (Post 8532793)
Am sure with some of the backlash STiD has received, Orci and CO are probably regretting it and pulling their hairs out about some of the bad decisions they made in this film.

What backlash?

They really aren't too concerned with people who are overly attached to fifty-year old material.

M'Sharak August 21 2013 01:22 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Quote:

serenitytrek1 wrote: (Post 8532793)
Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]

I really shouldn't have to remind you about keeping spoilers out of thread titles, but here's a reminder:

DO NOT PUT SPOILERS IN THREAD TITLES.

Yes, it's just Japan to go, but they still get the same courtesy. We're going to wait until the movie has been in full release there for at least a week before we start pasting spoilers where everyone can see them (that includes the TrekBBS Main Index, which is where your original title for this thread was visible.)

thumbtack August 21 2013 02:38 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Is this I love nuTrek but I have absolutely nothing good to say about it schtick fooling anyone?

Kruezerman August 21 2013 04:41 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
I'm getting a headache from all this. I just want my BR disc here so I can watch it on the big screen at school.

In other news, I got into it with Trekfreek on YouTube. Do I get a cookie or a medal?

AllStarEntprise August 21 2013 05:13 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
My only complaint about JJ Trek is that there is not MORE of it! I want more adventures to watch with this cast, in this universe.

Opus August 21 2013 05:33 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
^Agreed.

As far as the "Khan/noKhan" fauxtroversy, the vocal minority of fandom would have complained if BC wasn't Khan - "They missed a perfect oppportunity to make Cumberbatch Khan! Who is this John Harrison?! Hate! Hate! Hate!"

yawn...

serenitytrek1 August 21 2013 06:42 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Quote:

Hober Mallow wrote: (Post 8533000)
Quote:

serenitytrek1 wrote: (Post 8532793)
BC's character should have stayed as John Harrison. The guy is flawless, now that I have seen STiD multiple times, I strongly believe that he should get nominated for an Oscar, If they could nominate Ledger why not him?

I'm a huge fan of Cumberbatch, but... Oscar? He was the best thing about the film for me, but I don't think he did anything Oscar-worthy.

Quote:

The only thing that spoils BC in this film was that he was Khan. Am sure with some of the backlash STiD has received, Orci and CO are probably regretting it and pulling their hairs out about some of the bad decisions they made in this film.
I've no doubt that Cumberbatch will be back as Khan for the next film.


I personally disagree, If they gave ledger an Oscar why not BC. BC was just as good if not better than Ledger, such a shame. yeah , he might not get a nomination. To me its like Alan Rickman from Harry Potter all over again.

Pondslider August 21 2013 08:49 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
I like Cumberbatch but he doesn't deserve an Oscar. Comparing his character to Ledger's Joker is ridiculous. Even leaving the cultural impact out of it, Cumberbatch didn't even come close to owning that role in the way Ledger did.

King Daniel Into Darkness August 21 2013 09:03 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Cumberbatch was awesome as Khan. I just wish we got to see more of him! Hopefully STXIII will open with Khan being thawed for trial - and escaping.

The whole idea that Starfleet thawed Khan and tried blackmailing him into building weapons for a war with the Klingons... it's utterly insane. And awesome. It played the AU premise to it's fullest - you could not have told a Khan story any less like "Space Seed" or "Wrath of Khan" if you tried.

serenitytrek1 August 21 2013 09:48 AM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8534257)
you could not have told a Khan story any less like "Space Seed" or "Wrath of Khan" if you tried.


You hit the nail on the head up until Spock yield Khan. The
re-acted scene by Kirk and Spock in STiD was good. I wont necessary call it a rip off, however I just wish that the writers had not let Spock scream Khan.

Sometimes Less is More. The Khan scream spoilt the whole scene and even broke the fourth wall for me.

I didn't see Kirk and Spock in STiD, I saw Pine and Quinto been told by JJ Abrams' to pay tribute to Wrath of Khan.

the scene became has become like a serious parody to me.


sigh....

The Wormhole August 21 2013 01:48 PM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
I certainly agree that John Harrison was more interesting than Khan, and even made a thread to that effect. And certainly since Orci has described the creative process for the character as creating and developing a new character who he then named Khan kind of makes it really pointless for the character to be Khan.

Just what is accomplished by this anyway? It's not marketing, they kept the Khan identity top secret thereby preventing them from taking advantage of any marketing opportunity this idea presents itself with.

One could argue dramatic effect. It would be completely out of left field for Harrison, sitting in the brig to announce he's Khan. And I suppose it would have been if the Abrams posse hadn't constantly been saying there's a twist to the Harrison character related to Trek canon like snickering school children telling the loser kid they know who has a crush on him but refusing to reveal who exactly.

I get the impression they are in love with plot twists and wanted to try their hand at a twist which will be forever remembered in movie history like Vader revealing he's Luke's father. Instead they completely ruined it just made themselves look like petulant children and by extension unprofessional filmmakers.

Or, they like "TWOK is our favourite movie and we really wanted to revisit it. So we remade its most memorable scene and named our villain Khan."

A better approach would have been to stick to the John Harrison character as the villain or if they wanted to use Khan so badly been upfront about it, actually write and develop the character as Khan, and announced to the world as soon as Cumberbatch was cast that he was indeed Khan.

Pondslider August 21 2013 05:13 PM

Re: Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 8534704)
I certainly agree that John Harrison was more interesting than Khan, and even made a thread to that effect. And certainly since Orci has described the creative process for the character as creating and developing a new character who he then named Khan kind of makes it really pointless for the character to be Khan.

Just what is accomplished by this anyway? It's not marketing, they kept the Khan identity top secret thereby preventing them from taking advantage of any marketing opportunity this idea presents itself with.

One could argue dramatic effect. It would be completely out of left field for Harrison, sitting in the brig to announce he's Khan. And I suppose it would have been if the Abrams posse hadn't constantly been saying there's a twist to the Harrison character related to Trek canon like snickering school children telling the loser kid they know who has a crush on him but refusing to reveal who exactly.

I get the impression they are in love with plot twists and wanted to try their hand at a twist which will be forever remembered in movie history like Vader revealing he's Luke's father. Instead they completely ruined it just made themselves look like petulant children and by extension unprofessional filmmakers.

Or, they like "TWOK is our favourite movie and we really wanted to revisit it. So we remade its most memorable scene and named our villain Khan."

A better approach would have been to stick to the John Harrison character as the villain or if they wanted to use Khan so badly been upfront about it, actually write and develop the character as Khan, and announced to the world as soon as Cumberbatch was cast that he was indeed Khan.

Yup. And since the name Khan was meaningless to Kirk, Spock, McCoy, the reveal carried no weight except for with the audience. The whole thing was a missed opportunity.


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