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-   -   Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=223201)

Lyon_Wonder August 20 2013 05:11 AM

Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
A small percentage of the human population are sociopaths and psychopaths. I’ve heard that 1 out of every 25 people is a sociopath.

The Trek mirror universe humans, which are typically referred to as Terrans, are crueler than their normal-universe counterparts. In fact it’s confirmed in ENT’s “In a Mirror Darkly” that Mirror universe humans are historically more cruel and violent. The TNG novel “Dark Mirror” gives a historical comparison between normal and mirror universe humanity too.

I’m not psychologist, but I think the condition of sociopathy and psychopathy is much more prevalent with mirror universe Terrans than it is than normal humans. If one out of 25 humans in the normal universe is a sociopath, my guess is that maybe one out of 10 Terrans in the Mirror Universe is a sociopath. Even though the behavior of mirror universe Terrans might have a lot to do to their cultural environment and societal upbringing, I suspect the minds of Mirror Universe Terrans are somewhat different and are like that of sociopaths and psychopaths and don't feel empathy like normal humans, which I guess even includes mirror universe Terrans who have human counterparts in the normal universe.

King Daniel Into Darkness August 20 2013 12:04 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
If I recall correctly, doesn't Diane Duane explain the difference in Dark Mirror as being somehow an effect of a subtle difference in the universe's make up?

But truth told I think that's a cop-out excuse. Humans are capable of incredible and shocking cruelty and be perfectly sane. Raise them with different standards of what's acceptable and what isn't and see what happens - just look at Germany, falling under the spell of Adolf Hitler and the atrocities that were committed.:(

137th Gebirg August 20 2013 05:09 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
I do believe the MU humans became unwilling victims of their environment that somehow propelled them into Imperial brutality that we saw in the shows.

This was most aptly explained in the old DC comics, that postulated that the Imperial Federation was born out of a catastrophic loss of the Earth/Romulan war (as opposed to the win in the normal Federation universe). Earth humans and, to some extent Vulcans, were subjugated under Romulan rule for years until an underground insurgency rose up, stole a bunch of warships and destroyed the Romulan homeworld (or something to that effect). The prevailing opinion from that point forward was "NEVER AGAIN!", adopting a military doctrine of preemptive supremacy, effectively making them as bad as the Romulans once were. The rest, as they say, is future history.

Mysterion August 20 2013 05:17 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8529658)
If I recall correctly, doesn't Diane Duane explain the difference in Dark Mirror as being somehow an effect of a subtle difference in the universe's make up?

But truth told I think that's a cop-out excuse. Humans are capable of incredible and shocking cruelty and be perfectly sane. Raise them with different standards of what's acceptable and what isn't and see what happens - just look at Germany, falling under the spell of Adolf Hitler and the atrocities that were committed.:(

^^^
This. The human race in the Mirror Universe has just constructed a society (the Empire) that embraces that aspect of human existence, where as the human race in the Prime Universe has constructed a society (the Federation) that emphasizes the opposite end of the spectrum of human behavior.

Timo August 20 2013 09:24 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
I'm not at all convinced that a choice made by modern human(oid)s at a historical crossroads could be the reason for the differences. Even if Earth made a choice that promoted evilness in the population (simply by social pressure, or by natural selection for crazy people and general assholes), this wouldn't explain why everybody else from Bajorans to Trills is evil and lesbian as well. Plus, no differentiating choice had apparently been made by 2063 yet, but nevertheless the Mirror Cochrane was evil already. (And no doubt lesbian, too. Somehow.)

It rather seems that the Mirror Universe is an umbrella term for alternate timelines where something went differently way back when the concept of modern humanoids was first created - four billion years ago, when Salome Jens' folks seeded the galaxy with us. In the Mirror Universes, the seeding produced ruthless lesbian bastards, and evil constructs such as the Alliance automatically followed.

Timo Saloniemi

Melakon August 20 2013 10:04 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
I prefer to think that the mirror universe Starfleet simply puts all its sociopaths and psychopaths on ships named Enterprise.

iguana_tonante August 20 2013 11:47 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
Quote:

Mysterion wrote: (Post 8530651)
The human race in the Mirror Universe has just constructed a society (the Empire) that embraces that aspect of human existence, where as the human race in the Prime Universe has constructed a society (the Federation) that emphasizes the opposite end of the spectrum of human behavior.

My pet theory for the Mirror Universe is that, by design or random chance, it's the place where no good deed ever goes unpunished. Ever.

USS Jack Riley August 21 2013 01:09 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
The Mirror Universe is simply a parallel universe, but the Humans take on the worst aspects of humanity. These aspects are not unheard of. See the Nazis, Imperial Japan, Rome, etc. it is just that we are used to seeing our heroes as just that, heroes, not the animals they are when their worse aspects take center stage and are glorified rather than punished (as they are in the Prime Universe).

YMMV

Nob Akimoto August 26 2013 06:37 AM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
I wonder to what extent the outcome of say the Eugenics Wars or the 20th century conflicts might also have colored the Mirror Universe. I'm not sure I buy into the whole "there's something different in their nature" excuse, which does indeed sound like an excuse. Perhaps Khan was more successful in his conflict, the wars of fascism were more pronounced, or maybe it's even Edith Keeler's universe?

Deckerd August 26 2013 07:40 AM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
I think the Fringe approach is far more realistic, where people are just people and no better or worse than any other universe. If the human race had a different social structure then the idea of confluence would be untenable.

Timo August 26 2013 02:10 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
But the one explicit thing about the Mirror realms is that people are not people. They may look like people, but they behave like monsters or perverts, every single one of them. Well, except perhaps Smiley.

The point of "Parallels" was that everything that can happen, happens. "Confluence" in the Mirror episodes is just a single point, something one can easily achieve with an infinite selection of parallel universes; go back or forth a few decades, and the Mirror universe bears no resemblance to the "main" one again... (But a slightly different Mirror universe will provide another intersection point for another episode.)

Timo Saloniemi

Anduril August 26 2013 02:24 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 8531884)
I'm not at all convinced that a choice made by modern human(oid)s at a historical crossroads could be the reason for the differences. Even if Earth made a choice that promoted evilness in the population (simply by social pressure, or by natural selection for crazy people and general assholes), this wouldn't explain why everybody else from Bajorans to Trills is evil and lesbian as well. Plus, no differentiating choice had apparently been made by 2063 yet, but nevertheless the Mirror Cochrane was evil already. (And no doubt lesbian, too. Somehow.)

It rather seems that the Mirror Universe is an umbrella term for alternate timelines where something went differently way back when the concept of modern humanoids was first created - four billion years ago, when Salome Jens' folks seeded the galaxy with us. In the Mirror Universes, the seeding produced ruthless lesbian bastards, and evil constructs such as the Alliance automatically followed.

Timo Saloniemi

Now I'm thinking about lesbians.

Timo August 26 2013 02:26 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
What a coinci... I mean, confluence.

Timo Saloniemi

Deckerd August 26 2013 02:58 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 8557972)
But the one explicit thing about the Mirror realms is that people are not people. They may look like people, but they behave like monsters or perverts, every single one of them. Well, except perhaps Smiley.

The point of "Parallels" was that everything that can happen, happens. "Confluence" in the Mirror episodes is just a single point, something one can easily achieve with an infinite selection of parallel universes; go back or forth a few decades, and the Mirror universe bears no resemblance to the "main" one again... (But a slightly different Mirror universe will provide another intersection point for another episode.)

I don't think there is a point other than the writers getting bored and saying 'hey let's make everyone play a different character'. If you follow your idea that there are an infinite number of universes with only one or two points of confluence, then how convenient it is that out of the infinity the writers pick one where that rare moment is occurring!

The Librarian August 26 2013 03:50 PM

Re: Mirror universe humans - sociopaths and psychopaths
 
Oh, please. They're not sociopaths at all, because by the standards of their society this is perfectly normal behavior and not "anti-social." Saying that they're just animals that look human takes it to even more absurd extremes. There's very little that we see them do that would shock a Roman, medieval European, or really pretty much anyone else in human history up to the early 1800s. Empress Hoshi gaining massive military superiority and declaring herself to be in charge would fit right in with a huge number of historical leaders.


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