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Noddy August 11 2013 04:11 PM

The Borg in Assimilation2
 
How does everyone feel about the way in which the Borg were very nearly destroyed by the Cybermen in the Assimilation2 crossover with Doctor Who?

Allyn Gibson August 11 2013 07:43 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Of all the things I had an issue with in that series, the Cybermen pwning the Borg was not among them. :)

The Wormhole August 12 2013 03:07 AM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Although some did complain the Borg shouldn't have been so easily defeated by the Cybermen, I personally thought it made perfect sense.

Noddy August 17 2013 01:06 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Where the heck was the Borg Queen during everything that went on in that story? With the entire Collective facing conquest by the Cybermen, I'd have thought she'd have been more closely involved.

The Wormhole August 17 2013 08:10 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Continuity. It doesn't make sense for Data to be unaware of the Borg Queen in First Contact if he met her in this storyline set during TNG S5.

Christopher August 17 2013 08:49 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
^I wouldn't expect a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover to be in continuity with either series, so I don't see why that would be a consideration.

Allyn Gibson August 18 2013 03:24 AM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Quote:

Noddy wrote: (Post 8518261)
Where the heck was the Borg Queen during everything that went on in that story? With the entire Collective facing conquest by the Cybermen, I'd have thought she'd have been more closely involved.

My working theory around issue #6 was that there was no Borg Queen at this point in Borg history and that the Doctor would unintentionally create the Borg Queen when he rebooted the Borg to save them from the Cybermen and then, for timey-wimey reasons there would always have been a Borg Queen. Of course, it didn't happen that way. Nothing that interesting happened in Assimilation2.

I agree with The Wormhole. It would be a continuity problem for the crew to meet the Borg Queen several years before they actually do in First Contact. (Ironically, though, the characterizations, particularly Picard, are closer to the First Contact characterizations than the fifth season characterizations, so in retrospect maybe IDW should have set this after First Contact.)

Noddy August 18 2013 12:20 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 8519380)
^I wouldn't expect a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover to be in continuity with either series, so I don't see why that would be a consideration.

I'd like to include this story in my own personal continuity of both franchises, purely for the fun of it. I just love the idea that the Doctor might have met characters from Trek at some point.

Regarding how the crossover could have come about in-universe, I have a theory that the two realities of the Trekverse and the Whoniverse were somehow temporarily merged together to form a hybrid reality; this would explain how Whoniverse species like the Judoon and Slitheen could suddenly exist in the Trek galaxy. But what could have caused such a huge merger? I strongly doubt the Borg or Cybermen had such capabilities, so I suspect some higher power was at work, maybe Q, or Trelane, or the Celestial Toymaker.

The Wormhole August 18 2013 01:07 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Quote:

Allyn Gibson wrote: (Post 8520598)
(Ironically, though, the characterizations, particularly Picard, are closer to the First Contact characterizations than the fifth season characterizations, so in retrospect maybe IDW should have set this after First Contact.)

But then, I doubt seeing the Doctor, Amy and Rory on the bridge of the Enterprise E in those early publicity drawings would have triggered as much of a fanboy squee as seeing them on the D's bridge did.

Allyn Gibson August 18 2013 02:22 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Quote:

Noddy wrote: (Post 8521651)
Regarding how the crossover could have come about in-universe, I have a theory that the two realities of the Trekverse and the Whoniverse were somehow temporarily merged together to form a hybrid reality; this would explain how Whoniverse species like the Judoon and Slitheen could suddenly exist in the Trek galaxy.

The story suggests that the universes are merging early on (issues 3 and 4). However, the story then goes in a different direction and suggests that they're two wholly separate universes; the Cybermen's plan doesn't make sense otherwise.

I take away from Picard's trip in the TARDIS that the Judoon and the Slitheen naturally exist in the Star Trek universe. Which leads me to wonder if there's a Skaro in the Star Trek universe. And, if so, did Skaro avoid the thousand years of war? Could Davros be hailed around the Federation as a scientist and healer?

Noddy August 18 2013 05:56 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Quote:

Allyn Gibson wrote: (Post 8521876)
Quote:

Noddy wrote: (Post 8521651)
Regarding how the crossover could have come about in-universe, I have a theory that the two realities of the Trekverse and the Whoniverse were somehow temporarily merged together to form a hybrid reality; this would explain how Whoniverse species like the Judoon and Slitheen could suddenly exist in the Trek galaxy.

The story suggests that the universes are merging early on (issues 3 and 4). However, the story then goes in a different direction and suggests that they're two wholly separate universes; the Cybermen's plan doesn't make sense otherwise.

How so? I admit, it's been a while since I read it, so I may not be up on all the details.

Perhaps they were both separate continuums originally, when the Cybermen crossed over into the Trekverse, but then unseen events resulted in the two realities merging together somewhat. Opinions?

Stoek August 19 2013 02:12 PM

The Borg in Assimilation2: Electric Boogaloo
 
There fixed that for ya. ;)

Demiurge August 30 2013 05:06 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 8519380)
^I wouldn't expect a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover to be in continuity with either series, so I don't see why that would be a consideration.

Because if it ignores basic tenets of the two settings then its a disappointing story for hard core fans.

Lots there that didn't make sense - including the fact that the Borg were completely unaware of time travel. First Contact was quite a while ago now - the average Trekkie is very aware that the Borg can time travel, let alone the Federation ships themselves.

It was a limited arc story. There was some nice characterizations, and a few interesting plot points (Guinan, the 4th Doctor and Kirk's crew), but overall I found it fell flat.

For one, the Cybermen don't rank as a higher threat in my eyes as the Borg. Indeed, they lose the Cyber-Wars against humanity in the Doctor Who continuity. The fact that the Enterprise for some reason couldn't replicate Gold seemed a large plot hole - that's never been a problem before, to the point that gold pressed latinum is considered the only currency of value because anyone with a replicator can make as much gold as they want, as stated in DS9. The human empire in the Doctor Who universe win the Cyberwars because they find a huge gold asteroid.

This appears to have been written by someone that has more knowledge of Dr. Who than Trek, odd considering IDW prints lots of Trek stories.

Christopher August 30 2013 05:25 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Well, to be fair, Doctor Who is currently the more active and higher-profile franchise. So I can understand IDW expecting the crossover's audience to be skewed in favor of DW fans and adjusting the emphasis accordingly.

Allyn Gibson August 30 2013 05:59 PM

Re: The Borg in Assimilation2
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 8577109)
Well, to be fair, Doctor Who is currently the more active and higher-profile franchise. So I can understand IDW expecting the crossover's audience to be skewed in favor of DW fans and adjusting the emphasis accordingly.

Odd. I thought it was basically a Star Trek: The Next Generation story (specifically, one of those later season talky bottle episodes) that guest starred the Doctor. I don't think it worked as a Doctor Who story at all. :)


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