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Johnny August 9 2013 02:38 PM

Before & After
 
The reference to the Year of Hell (4:8/9) in Before & After (3:21), anyone know anything on it from a production point of view? What forethought went into it etc.
J.

Johnny August 9 2013 02:39 PM

Re: Before & After
 
Quote:

Johnny wrote: (Post 8488219)
The reference to the Year of Hell (4:8/9) in Before & After (3:21), anyone know anything on it from a production point of view? What forethought went into it etc.
J.

Or my references are WAAAAAY out! :lol:

KaraBear August 9 2013 03:59 PM

Re: Before & After
 
the thing about Before and After....it never happened.

Kes begins her backward time travel because of the radiation she got in Year of Hell. But since Kes actually left Voyager before Year of Hell she didn't get that radiation, so she didn't travel backwards in time, and she couldn't have warned Janeway about the Krenim

R. Star August 9 2013 05:21 PM

Re: Before & After
 
Except she did... and Janeway just flew full speed into Krenim space anyways. Gotta love Voyager's general abuse and inconsistency regarding the timeline.

KaraBear August 9 2013 05:25 PM

Re: Before & After
 
the warning goes away because the episode never happened

R. Star August 9 2013 05:26 PM

Re: Before & After
 
Except the warning was given after the reset button push. But silly Voyager... the can't be expected to keep up with what they write in previous episodes.

KaraBear August 9 2013 05:46 PM

Re: Before & After
 
I disagree. Since Kes leaves the ship before they encounter the Krenim she was never exposed to the radiation that made her jump back in time. So she didn't know about the Krenim so her warning dissapeared

R. Star August 9 2013 06:06 PM

Re: Before & After
 
Except she was. For whatever reason things played out differently after the reset button push for the Kes with the knowledge of the future. Heck maybe she subconsciously left because she didn't want to put up with all that crap. I mean we have an alternate reality version of Kim on the ship already, what's a little more muddying of the timeline?

KaraBear August 9 2013 06:19 PM

Re: Before & After
 
Kim is not from an alternate reality. He was just a duplicate, same timelime same reality

Guy Gardener August 9 2013 10:35 PM

Re: Before & After
 
Annorax was altering the timeline continuously for 200 years from his perspective.

(His weapon was targeting the same year for two centuries, because he was anchored to 2374 for 20 decades, with perhaps a little drift to explain why the badly written story seemed linear. He had not started to play with time in 2174, or his wife would be dead. Don't be a fucking moron.)

We had little evidence to believe that Before and After had not HAPPENED until the episode before Year of Hell finished, which is an intermediate zone when we don't see where the THOUSANDS of different timelines created by Annorax play out and then become aborted and reset, rejiggered, start fresh and then again aborted, ad infinitum.

200 years of this shit.

We did not experience the first couple centuries of Year of Hell where Before and After had sometimes happened, and other times had not happened, depending on how Annorax molested time at any given moment.

Although...

Captain Chakotay had not encountered the Borg in Before and After, or at least got through the Northwest Passage unmolested without picking up a blonde hitch-hiker, and somehow made up the 10k light years Dark Kes gifted Voyager upon her departure, so that the Year of Hell happened approximately at the same time in both timelines.

This is when you begin to wonder what the Queens time capsule broad cast in First Contact from her interplexing beacon had on the condition and girth of Borg Space, sure Annorax may have destroyed/neutered the Borg quite early in his experiments, and then brought them back considering the events of Scorpion which still had to happen after a fashion since Seven of Nine was part of Voyager's crew, but without the Future Queens help the Borg wouldn't have had the tech to bother 8472, even if there's no 8472 there's no North West passage, but if Ransom found a Wormhole that allowed him to skip Borg Space with complete ignorance maybe Captain Chakotay used the same hole?

Here's the Rub.

In any timeline where Kes warns Janeway about the Krenim, of which there would have been thousands, that creates a situation where Janeway is able to negotiate/outwit/survive/avoid the temporally native Krenim (Who are playthings to Annorax just like Janeway.) , so that she is beneath Annorax's attention and equally completely ignorant of Annorax and so eventually & unavoidably falls prey to a reset by Annorax's weapon.

We saw a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the story.

The Janeway entering Krenim Space at the Beginning of Year of Hell, after 200 years of Annorax fiddling with her, is not the Janeway at the end of Year of Hell entering Krenim Space who is a fresh faced virgin. The Janeway at the end of Year of Hell, after the destruction of Annnorax's weapon, may have, and most probably did experience Before and After which is why she didn't fly off her handle when she was asked to go around.

MacLeod August 9 2013 10:40 PM

Re: Before & After
 
Quote:

Johnny wrote: (Post 8488219)
The reference to the Year of Hell (4:8/9) in Before & After (3:21), anyone know anything on it from a production point of view? What forethought went into it etc.
J.

Forethough :wtf:

Virtually none would be the honest answer, but that isn't just a fault of the VOY writers but of writers of shows in general. Sometimes they have no diea where they are going and make it up as they go along. This pparach can be painfully obvious or well done so that you think maybe they did have all this planned in advance.

Guy Gardener August 9 2013 10:47 PM

Re: Before & After
 
Quote:

KaraBear wrote: (Post 8488831)
Kim is not from an alternate reality. He was just a duplicate, same timelime same reality

Non Sequitor, not Deadlock.

With infinite possible timestreams to fall into, do you think it's realistic (cough!) that he found his way back to the very same exact timestream he left considering the inprecision of his tech?

"Close enough"

But a story about Kim discovering how this timestream (terminology used in the episode.) was slightly and minutely different form the one he called home would have been amusing.

These two episodes are book ends.

He Annoraxes the Universe because only he, the greatest hero in all the universes can save Janeway, but the little shit dies a couple month later because he's really a deluded wanker.

Why not give Daniel Byrd a chance?

Oh.

Ego.

JirinPanthosa August 9 2013 11:15 PM

Re: Before & After
 
In Star Trek when the time gets altered the effects of the original timeline stay in the new timeline.

I don't know from a production standpoint, but I believe (Based on vague memories of people telling me so) that Year of Hell was planned to be the end of third season cliffhanger. I guess if you want to resolve discrepancies you can say that Kes's memories of the future accelerated her transformation, and if you recall in The Gift her telekinesis saved Seven's life. So you could say in the original timeline, Kes never left, Seven died in The Gift, and the original Year of Hell took place in the original Krenim timeline before the first temporal inversion.

Timewalker August 10 2013 01:12 AM

Re: Before & After
 
At this point in the conversation, I prefer to pretend that Kes never existed. :cardie:

Guy Gardener August 10 2013 01:29 AM

Re: Before & After
 
At what point in the conversation do you pretend that Kim doesn't exist?


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