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M.A.C.O. August 1 2013 06:53 AM

The Doctor and River
With season 7 completed I wanted to ask. Did anyone else feel disappointed by how the Doctor and River's relationship was handled. I don't think it was developed or executed well is my meaning. My complaint is that we never see the Doctor and River fall in love or any get off base one of actually liking eachother. Moffat's style is to tell not show. We are constantly told how River is the love of the Doctor's life, but we were never shown why or how he could fall in love with a woman like her.

Does anyone else feel like this?

Sketcher August 1 2013 07:21 AM

Re: The Doctor and River
Back at the start of season five, I was really hoping the River Song story would be a lot...simpler than what we got. I really wanted River to 'd just be a normal human that the Doctor met out of order.

It would've been interesting if, at some point down the road, they cast a younger River (early 20s) that became the show's full-time companion after the Ponds. That way we don't have to keep worrying about Alex Kingston looking older with every "younger" appearance, and maybe have River meet more than two docs.

We'd get a season or two of witnessing a Doctor that knows everything about this woman, and a girl that knows nothing about him, and watch, in real-time, this relationship flourish, getting a true sense of just how close they were to each other.

lvsxy808 August 1 2013 10:18 AM

Re: The Doctor and River
Yeah, it all basically happened off screen, during the gaps between "Good Man" and "Hitler" and between "Closing Time" and "Wedding", and we're just supposed to trust that it happened.

The extra DVD-only clips from the season 6 DVD set offer snippets (the "Night and the Doctor" clips), and it looks like that's all we're going to get as far as actual on-screen material.


Pavonis August 1 2013 09:15 PM

Re: The Doctor and River
Where's a "young River" going to fit? We saw her regenerate twice, the second time into Alex Kingston. The young Melody regenerated into, presumably, a young brown-skinned girl, who spent time with her parents.

propita August 2 2013 04:01 AM

Re: The Doctor and River
At what point did River spend time on the forest planet, the one where the only water is the river? She was a little girl in a space suit, got out, regenerated into...someone--did we SEE it was Mels? But we're told she grew up with Amy & Rory, knowing they were her parents. So there's some missing time between the regeneration in the US and growng up in England.

Then there's evidently more unaccounted for time, after "Let's Kill Hitler," where assumedly, River went to school and was somehow "raised" by Madame K to kill the Doctor while in the persona of River, even though she had tried while she was Mels.

I must be mixing something up here, right?

M.A.C.O. August 2 2013 07:13 AM

Re: The Doctor and River
^ Nope that's about it.

The River Song Timeline as I understand it to be from her POV

"A Good Man Goes To War": Born and Kidnapped

"Impossible Astronaut" *Child* Meoldy escapes the orphanage. Amy shoots at her.

"Day of The Moon" Melody breaks out of space suit, and regenerates into Mels

"Let's Kill Hitler": Mels grows up with Amy and Rory. Mels travels with her Doctor and her parents to Nazi Germany. Gets shot and regenerates in to River Song. Nearly succeeds at killing the Doctor but uses her regeneration energy to save the Doctor's life.

"Closing Time" at the end River Song is put back in to the astronaut suit.

"Wedding of River Song"/"Impossible Astronaut" (beginning of the episode) River "kills" the Doctor and the universe nearly unravels. River learns the truth of the Doctor being in a robot and proceeds to "kill" the Doctor. River is placed in Stormcage Prison for her "crime".

"First Night"/"Last Night": River and the Doctor's first night together since she's been put in prison. Also the last night they'll spend together. The present Doctor runs in to his future self and a future River. They are all dressed up and set to go see the singing towers on some planet called Derillium.

"Pandorica Opens"/"Big Bang": River joins the Doctor, Amy and Rory on an adventure to reset the universe and undo the cracks in reality from the exploding TARDIS.

"A Good Man Goes To War" River tells Rory she can't assist the Doctor in rescuing Melody and that this is the day he will discover her identity. River shows up at Demon's Run and informs the Doctor and her parents who she really is.

"The Impossible Astronaut" / "Day of the Moon": Participates as a companion as adult River. Helps the Doctor take down the Silence.

"Time of the Angels"/"Flesh and Stone": River, the Doctor and Amy's adventure against the Weeping Angels. In this episode River admits to killing a very good man.

"Wedding Of River Song" End of the episode River shows up at her parent's house. Saying she just crawled out of the Byzantium. The ship that was carrying the weeping angel from the aforementioned episodes. Dressed in the same combat uniform she wore in that episode as well.

No episode shown but River is pardoned for her crimes and is released from Stormcage. Thanks to the Doctor deleting himself from files throughout history. River also becomes a professor.

"The Angels Take Manhattan": Accompanies her parents and the Doctor on their final adventure against the weeping angels.

"Last Night" The Doctor takes River to see the singing towers.

"Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead": River meets the 10th Doctor, and gives her life to save him. 10 puts her conscience inside a computer using a sonic screwdriver 11 had given River.

"The Name of the Doctor": River and the Doctor say their farewells.

Leith Jones August 4 2013 07:19 PM

Re: The Doctor and River
Thanks, AllStarEntprise.

As much as I like the character, we probably won't see any more of River's story because this is a family show with emphasis on adventure, action, and fun for the kids - not a romance.

One thing I've wondered: when River sees the Tenant version, she doesn't say "I haven't seen this incarnation." She says "you look so young." That hints that she either knows DT's incarnation or she sees Timelords as they see themselves (how else would one recognize another one after a regeneration?). This can't be the first time this sort of thing has been brought up...

chelly August 4 2013 08:00 PM

Re: The Doctor and River
According to her, she has a drawing of all of his faces. She might be like her mother and draws what she see's not what everyone else sees. Remember the drawing of Rory in wedding.

She also may have seen 10 in a earlier time in his reinc (with Rose perhaps). She may see him aged a bit since she saw him with Rose. She also may have been referring to his eyes looking different. (tired weary who knows).

lvsxy808 August 4 2013 08:42 PM

Re: The Doctor and River
One theory regarding River and 10 is that he had another adventure with her during the farewell tour between "The Waters of Mars" and "The End of Time" - later in his timeline but earlier in hers. Then she would recognize his specific regeneration but not realize that he wouldn't know her.

Another possibility is that this might be the very adventure we see in the 50th, from 10's POV at least. There's plenty of time between "Mars" and "Time" for more 10 adventures. But then it would be unlikely to include Rose, as we know it does, so probably not.


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