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-   -   "Whom Gods Destroy" question.... (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=220366)

Grant July 20 2013 04:11 AM

"Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
It's always bugged me that the teaser ends with garth holding a phaser on Kirk/Spock and Act I starting with an unconscious Spock being dragged away??

WTF?? Why did they chose to edit it that way?

I now assume it was a cost-cutting thing where they just saved a few bucks on an optical effect.

Anybody know for sure/seen a script?

Thanks.

Grant July 20 2013 06:17 AM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Well, I've narrowed it down---at least 39 people don't know the answer.

I figured it was a mystery lost in trek lore...........

Dr. Sevrin July 20 2013 06:27 AM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
I suspect Nimoy insisted Spock couldn't be knocked out and refused to do it.

And gee whiz, you expected someone to answer within two hours? You didn't say anything about it being urgent.

Therin of Andor July 20 2013 06:32 AM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
It was an episode with lots of controversy. Several arguments between the cast and the director, IIRC, including Spock knocking someone out with a phaser butt, and actors being asked to walk off stage where a wall would normally be.

Grant July 20 2013 06:35 AM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 8404753)
I suspect Nimoy insisted Spock couldn't be knocked out and refused to do it.

And gee whiz, you expected someone to answer within two hours? You didn't say anything about it being urgent.

Actually no, I didn't expect an answer at all--let alone in two hours in the middle of the night in the USA!

I was just lamenting that 39 people viewed it and didn't have any knowledge. I didn't even expect 39 people would have viewed it by that point!

But if Nimoy refused to been seen getting stunned--why would he agree to be seen post-stun?
I'm sticking by my theory for now.

We are talking about the opening scene and not the later scene where he can't figure out which kirk is kirk, right?

I mean it was so damn ridiculous---- just stun one and if it's garth he reverts and you pretend YOU KNEW which it was and
if it isn't garth then stun the other and claim it didn't matter because it was a logical way to end the crisis!

Grant July 20 2013 06:42 AM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 8404756)
It was an episode with lots of controversy. Several arguments between the cast and the director, IIRC, including Spock knocking someone out with a phaser butt, and actors being asked to walk off stage where a wall would normally be.


No, no, the episode where the director asked the cast to walk thru where the wall normally was---was Turnabout intruder and involved the briefing room. Just watched it two night ago and sure enough they dont use the door to the corridor but at the wall where the camera usually shoots from when they are in the briefing room.

And the Spock using the phaser butt to knock out someone was the story from Enemy Within where Nimoy and Shatner first came up with the pinch because Nimoy thought it was beneath Spock to use a 'gun-butt'---that would have been long solved by late season 3.

MarsSpectre July 20 2013 11:31 AM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Quote:

Grant wrote: (Post 8404762)
I was just lamenting that 39 people viewed it and didn't have any knowledge.

Or maybe 39 people viewed it and didn't think it was worth an answer?

IzzyAtWarp9 July 20 2013 11:53 AM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
As much as I love this episode and it's like, my favourite episode EVER there are definitely some weird bits. Like the two Kirks at the end. And why when Kirk's in the chair, he passes out after rather than during.
And also I wonder why they put Cory in the chair instead of Spock which I guess is the same reason as your thing, that he didn't want Spock to be put in a situation like that. So that's why I reckon they do that.

alchemist July 20 2013 12:50 PM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
From the First Draft dated September 5, 1968 (starting at the end of the Teaser):

7 INT. CELL – DAY
A man is spread-eagled against the rear wall, suspended by unusual shackles, his chin resting on his chest. As he lifts his head, we see that he is Cory – disheveled, haggard and wild-eyed.

CORY
Kirk, you’ve been tricked!

8 REVERSE ANGLE – (OPTICAL TIEDOWN)
Momentarily stunned, Kirk and Spock turn to their companion. He has a phaser trained on them and, before their eyes, he changes into Garth, a tall, hawknosed man with deepset, glowing eyes. In the B.G. all the previously seen, supposedly restrained inmates are out of their cells. They’re armed and they’re converging on Spock and Kirk. Meanwhile:

GARTH
You said you wanted to see me, Captain?
Well, here I am.

Garth activates the phaser and Spock goes down, but Kirk is on top of Garth before Garth can get him, too. They struggle, but Kirk is overwhelmed by the madmen. The pig-faced Tellarite is trying to strangle him to death as we –


FADE OUT.

END OF TEASER



ACT ONE

9 FADE IN:

INT. CELL
When Kirk comes to, he finds himself sprawled on the floor of Cory’s cell. The Governor registers relief as Kirk looks at him dazedly. (NOTE: Allow footage for credits.)

CORY
You’re alive. I was afraid they’d finished you off.

Kirk swallow hard, licks his lips and his voice sounds hoarse as:

KIRK
I—I thought it was a night-mare

CORY
It is. But – it’s one that’s actually happening.

Kirk suddenly recalls the beginning of the struggle.

KIRK
Spock! Is he dead?

CORY
I’m not sure. They dragged him away.






From the Final Draft dated October 7, 1968 (starting at the end of the Teaser):

7 INT. CELL – DAY
A man is spread-eagled against the rear wall, suspended by unusual shackles, his chin resting on his chest. As he lifts his head, we see that he is Cory – disheveled, haggard and wild-eyed.

KIRK
(amazed)
Cory!

CORY
You’re too late, Jim.


8 REVERSE ANGLE – (OPTICAL TIE-DOWN)
Momentarily stunned, Kirk and Spock turn to their companion. He has a phaser trained on them and, before their eyes, he changes into Garth, a tall, hawknosed man with deepset, glowing eyes. In the b.g. most of the previously seen, supposedly restrained inmates are out of their cells. They’re armed and they’re converging on Spock and Kirk. Meanwhile:

GARTH
You said you wanted to see me, Captain?
Well, here I am.

FADE OUT.

END OF TEASER



ACT ONE

9 FADE IN:

INT. SECURITY CELL CORRIDOR - DAY
Kirk is in Cory’s cell. He flings himself at the invisible barrier, to no avail. Meanwhile, Spock (limp and his eyes closed) is being dragged away.

10 INT. CELL – DAY
Kirk tries to release Cory but it’s not possible. (NOTE: Allow footage for the credits during preceding two scenes.)

Therin of Andor July 20 2013 12:55 PM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Quote:

Grant wrote: (Post 8404783)
No, no...

Well, there were definitely arguments re this episode. I happen to like it, but it sounded like it wasn't a pleasant shoot for many.

Botany Bay July 20 2013 01:41 PM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Indeed, especially for Nimoy, who viewed this one as a weak remake of Dagger of the Mind, and wrote Roddenberry or Freiberger (can't remember which) a scathing critique of the script, and the general direction the series and Spock character were heading in.

I want to say Nimoy reprinted his missive in his book I am Spock, but, sadly my Trek collection is boxed up right now, and I am not 100% sure.

Anyway, good thread, thanks for clearing this up alchemist. Preferred the earlier draft, but I guess the fight was cut at the script stage to save $$.

IzzyAtWarp9 July 20 2013 02:04 PM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Quote:

alchemist wrote: (Post 8405455)
From the First Draft dated September 5, 1968 (starting at the end of the Teaser...

Thanks that's cool! Where did you find these scripts??

Grant July 20 2013 02:27 PM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Quote:

alchemist wrote: (Post 8405455)
From the First Draft dated September 5, 1968 (starting at the end of the Teaser):

7 INT. CELL – DAY
A man is spread-eagled against the rear wall, suspended by unusual shackles, his chin resting on his chest. As he lifts his head, we see that he is Cory – disheveled, haggard and wild-eyed.

CORY
Kirk, you’ve been tricked!

8 REVERSE ANGLE – (OPTICAL TIEDOWN)
Momentarily stunned, Kirk and Spock turn to their companion. He has a phaser trained on them and, before their eyes, he changes into Garth, a tall, hawknosed man with deepset, glowing eyes. In the B.G. all the previously seen, supposedly restrained inmates are out of their cells. They’re armed and they’re converging on Spock and Kirk. Meanwhile:

GARTH
You said you wanted to see me, Captain?
Well, here I am.

Garth activates the phaser and Spock goes down, but Kirk is on top of Garth before Garth can get him, too. They struggle, but Kirk is overwhelmed by the madmen. The pig-faced Tellarite is trying to strangle him to death as we –


FADE OUT.

END OF TEASER



ACT ONE

9 FADE IN:

INT. CELL
When Kirk comes to, he finds himself sprawled on the floor of Cory’s cell. The Governor registers relief as Kirk looks at him dazedly. (NOTE: Allow footage for credits.)

CORY
You’re alive. I was afraid they’d finished you off.

Kirk swallow hard, licks his lips and his voice sounds hoarse as:

KIRK
I—I thought it was a night-mare

CORY
It is. But – it’s one that’s actually happening.

Kirk suddenly recalls the beginning of the struggle.

KIRK
Spock! Is he dead?

CORY
I’m not sure. They dragged him away.







From the Final Draft dated October 7, 1968 (starting at the end of the Teaser):

7 INT. CELL – DAY
A man is spread-eagled against the rear wall, suspended by unusual shackles, his chin resting on his chest. As he lifts his head, we see that he is Cory – disheveled, haggard and wild-eyed.

KIRK
(amazed)
Cory!

CORY
You’re too late, Jim.


8 REVERSE ANGLE – (OPTICAL TIE-DOWN)
Momentarily stunned, Kirk and Spock turn to their companion. He has a phaser trained on them and, before their eyes, he changes into Garth, a tall, hawknosed man with deepset, glowing eyes. In the b.g. most of the previously seen, supposedly restrained inmates are out of their cells. They’re armed and they’re converging on Spock and Kirk. Meanwhile:

GARTH
You said you wanted to see me, Captain?
Well, here I am.

FADE OUT.

END OF TEASER



ACT ONE

9 FADE IN:

INT. SECURITY CELL CORRIDOR - DAY
Kirk is in Cory’s cell. He flings himself at the invisible barrier, to no avail. Meanwhile, Spock (limp and his eyes closed) is being dragged away.

10 INT. CELL – DAY
Kirk tries to release Cory but it’s not possible. (NOTE: Allow footage for the credits during preceding two scenes.)

Thanks so much--that's really interesting! Glad you found the question worth answering! Don't know why they would write it that way, but they sure did.

Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 8405461)
Quote:

Grant wrote: (Post 8404783)
No, no...

Well, there were definitely arguments re this episode. I happen to like it, but it sounded like it wasn't a pleasant shoot for many.

No, you are right, Nimoy hated the episode and hated that Spock couldn't figure out the real Kirk in the two seconds he should have........

CaptainBearclaw July 20 2013 02:41 PM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
I always thought that they did it for a cheap fake-out. Like the audience starts act one with "Oh no, Spock's dead!" and then Garth says he only used stun.

GSchnitzer July 20 2013 02:50 PM

Re: "Whom Gods Destroy" question....
 
Quote:

Grant wrote: (Post 8405698)
Quote:

alchemist wrote: (Post 8405455)
From the First Draft dated September 5, 1968 (starting at the end of the Teaser):

7 INT. CELL – DAY
A man is spread-eagled against the rear wall, suspended by unusual shackles, his chin resting on his chest. As he lifts his head, we see that he is Cory – disheveled, haggard and wild-eyed.

CORY
Kirk, you’ve been tricked!

8 REVERSE ANGLE – (OPTICAL TIEDOWN)
Momentarily stunned, Kirk and Spock turn to their companion. He has a phaser trained on them and, before their eyes, he changes into Garth, a tall, hawknosed man with deepset, glowing eyes. In the B.G. all the previously seen, supposedly restrained inmates are out of their cells. They’re armed and they’re converging on Spock and Kirk. Meanwhile:

GARTH
You said you wanted to see me, Captain?
Well, here I am.

Garth activates the phaser and Spock goes down, but Kirk is on top of Garth before Garth can get him, too. They struggle, but Kirk is overwhelmed by the madmen. The pig-faced Tellarite is trying to strangle him to death as we –


FADE OUT.

END OF TEASER



ACT ONE

9 FADE IN:

INT. CELL
When Kirk comes to, he finds himself sprawled on the floor of Cory’s cell. The Governor registers relief as Kirk looks at him dazedly. (NOTE: Allow footage for credits.)

CORY
You’re alive. I was afraid they’d finished you off.

Kirk swallow hard, licks his lips and his voice sounds hoarse as:

KIRK
I—I thought it was a night-mare

CORY
It is. But – it’s one that’s actually happening.

Kirk suddenly recalls the beginning of the struggle.

KIRK
Spock! Is he dead?

CORY
I’m not sure. They dragged him away.







From the Final Draft dated October 7, 1968 (starting at the end of the Teaser):

7 INT. CELL – DAY
A man is spread-eagled against the rear wall, suspended by unusual shackles, his chin resting on his chest. As he lifts his head, we see that he is Cory – disheveled, haggard and wild-eyed.

KIRK
(amazed)
Cory!

CORY
You’re too late, Jim.


8 REVERSE ANGLE – (OPTICAL TIE-DOWN)
Momentarily stunned, Kirk and Spock turn to their companion. He has a phaser trained on them and, before their eyes, he changes into Garth, a tall, hawknosed man with deepset, glowing eyes. In the b.g. most of the previously seen, supposedly restrained inmates are out of their cells. They’re armed and they’re converging on Spock and Kirk. Meanwhile:

GARTH
You said you wanted to see me, Captain?
Well, here I am.

FADE OUT.

END OF TEASER



ACT ONE

9 FADE IN:

INT. SECURITY CELL CORRIDOR - DAY
Kirk is in Cory’s cell. He flings himself at the invisible barrier, to no avail. Meanwhile, Spock (limp and his eyes closed) is being dragged away.

10 INT. CELL – DAY
Kirk tries to release Cory but it’s not possible. (NOTE: Allow footage for the credits during preceding two scenes.)

Thanks so much--that's really interesting! Glad you found the question worth answering! Don't know why they would write it that way, but they sure did.

And the FINAL DRAFT of the script (dated October 7, 1968) has all the same content.

Lee Erwin probably wrote it that way--a line of exposition instead of showing Spock being stunned--in order to get right into the story immediately after the credits. (It does seem like the kind of thing that can be dispensed with a single line.) It's kind of like the line in "The Omega Glory" when Cloud William and Sirah have escaped through the window after knocking Kirk out. After coming to, Kirk tells Spock "I'll have you out in a minute." Do we really need to see Kirk climb out through the window, go around through the front door, get the keys, and get Spock out of his cell? I think there's a lot of stuff in Star Trek that we didn't actually see that we can simply figure out what it probably looked like. (It's hard to know where a phaser stun to Spock would have played better--before or after the credits.)


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