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tmosler July 17 2013 07:31 AM

why is star trek original series disliked
 
After reading many fourms on tos i am confused at the negativity toward the show. As much as i like tng and for the most part ds9 tos was always my favorite. Most of the negativity revolves around it being cheesy,dated, and goofy which i can see in some episodes (the naked time and this side of paridise ) but for me this makes it even more enjoyable. Also in addition to the new remastered effects the character interaction between spock, mcoy, and kirk and more focus on exploration then tng makes it my favorite star trek show. Lastly there was lots more action then tng ever had and i feel it had the best humor which for the most part other trek series failed at. You can comment on whether you like the show and why below

Kevman7987 July 17 2013 01:56 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
^I love TOS for many of the reasons you mentioned.

I feel that many people who dislike TOS are looking at the show through their modern, jaded eyes and views. When you look at the show in relation to what else was on TV at that time in the 60's, it is one of the greatest shows of all time.

BillJ July 17 2013 02:43 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
I love TOS but taste is formed by personality. People keep telling me how brilliant Deep Space Nine is, but I just don't see it.

Takeru July 17 2013 02:47 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
I don't really care for TOS, I don't dislike it as a whole, there are some episodes I genuinely like but there are also elements of the show I don't like at all, I despise McCoy for example, I understand he's supposed to be the emotional one of the main trio but being emotional doesn't mean you have to act like a racist hick. I don't remember specific examples but too many times Spock made a suggestion that he explained logically and that really seemed to be the best way out of the situation they were in. McCoy's reaction can be summed up with "You emotionless, cold-blooded monster, you're worse than Hitler!". It was always personal with MCCoy, he attacked Spock, not his opinions, he ruins a lot of episodes for me.

I also don't think Star Trek was as smart as some fans (and apparently Roddenberry himself) seemed to believe, the crew of the Enterprise and human values were always shown to be right and "good", an alien society with alien behavior shows up? Expect them to be fixed by Kirk at the end of the episode. And the often cited allegories to 60s problems were so obvious and on the nose they make me groan, like the "Racism is stupid" episode with the black/white aliens.

bbailey861 July 17 2013 03:15 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
I love TOS. I grew up in the 60's, so I don't have a hangup about the 'dated' aspect of the show. The themes are just as relevant today as they were then. More so, perhaps - just turn on the news channel.

Hambone July 17 2013 05:30 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
In the introduction to his book "The Nitpicker's Guide for Classic Trekkers", Phil Farrand makes the following observations:

Quote:

In my travels, I've come across an interesting attitude towards the original Star Trek. I've found that many fans of Star Trek: The Next Generation view the original series like the crazy old uncle that no one wants to talk about at the family reunion. That's unfortunate, because you can't really understand NextGen unless you go back to its beginnings.

There is really good work here. There really is a good reason this series has survived for almost four decades. Once you get past the less polished sets and cheap-looking effects, you find great stories performed by talented actors.
It really was a miracle that Star Trek ever got on the air in the first place. When you recall the TV landscape of the mid-1960's you had westerns, comedies, westerns, variety shows, westerns, cold war spy shows and westerns. There was nothing even remotely like Star Trek on the air (with the possible exception of Batman) and that includes Lost in Space, which despite its claim to be "family" science fiction was actually a children's show.

By 1987, the groundwork had already been laid for a new series. Because of the series' history through TOS, TAS and the movies, TNG should have been better than it was. But it too found its footing eventually. But without TOS there would have been no spin-offs or movies, and by protracted thought, probably no Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, Farscape, and so on. I really believe that. Even if those shows had managed to exist without TOS they would have been very, very different. If Star Trek took its inspiration from Forbidden Planet, then those other shows were a logical extension.

Was TOS heavy-handed in its delivery of morality plays? Sometimes. Was it corny or over-acted? Occasionally. Were the sets, costumes and effects sometimes inferior? Certainly. But TOS had the advantage of being there first, and of being interesting. Even the "dogs" (Spock's Brain, The Way to Eden, etc.) at least had good storylines. Who knows, with a little more time and polish and a few re-writes, Spock's Brain might have been one of TOS' best stories. A better title would definitely have helped!

My original point is, TOS must be viewed through 1960s eyes in order to be appreciated.

Kinokima July 17 2013 05:51 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
Quote:

I despise McCoy for example, I understand he's supposed to be the emotional one of the main trio but being emotional doesn't mean you have to act like a racist hick
He doesn't act like a racist hick at all. McCoy is awesome and the heart of the trio. As for his barbs against Spock, it was banter and Spock gave back as good as he got (which was actually very popular at the time. Fans wrote in and wanted more of it). Okay sometimes they argued for real but deep down McCoy and Spock cared about and respected each other. Their relationship was the typical "I can't admit that I like you". But I digress;


Anyways the above is the perfect example that some fans can't look at things from the context of when it was written. They judge the writing, characters, and special effects from today's standards.

They don't understand that the things they watch today will probably be considered politically incorrect, cheesy, and dated in 40+ years too.

Normally I wouldn't use TV tropes as an example but I think this is the perfect one to describe negative reaction against the original Star Trek

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...nfeldIsUnfunny

tmosler July 17 2013 05:56 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
I just thought of 2 more reasons i like tos more then all the other series. First reason is i know some trek fans who hate the music but i think it fits in quite good. Also there is almost no technobabble (you never heard scotty say something like "if we were to vary the phase harmonics by adjusting the frequency of the problem, it might super nova into itself with transdemensimal energy that we could break down into compential derivations" Scotty just got to work!

mlk July 17 2013 08:19 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
I simply don't think it has aged well. The Tos movies are all great though

King Daniel Into Darkness July 17 2013 09:41 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
I grew up with TNG, and loved it at the time.... but now I find it virtually unwatchable. It's aged terribly. The morals are trite. The acting and direction are incredibly poor. It's frequently dull as ditchwater. TOS, on the other hand is dated and cheesy but it's fun. And it's datedness and cheese just makes it more so. It's the characters (even though I frequenty want to slap McCoy when he gets irrational, and Grabby Kirk needs a kick in the balls every once in a while), their interactions, and the adventure that I love.

marksound July 17 2013 09:57 PM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
In the 1960s all tv shows were cheesy and goofy. Everything about 60s pop culture was cheesy and goofy.

Except for the stuff that was awesome. :lol:

tmosler July 18 2013 01:40 AM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8393332)
I grew up with TNG, and loved it at the time.... but now I find it virtually unwatchable. It's aged terribly. The morals are trite. The acting and direction are incredibly poor. It's frequently dull as ditchwater. TOS, on the other hand is dated and cheesy but it's fun. And it's datedness and cheese just makes it more so. It's the characters (even though I frequenty want to slap McCoy when he gets irrational, and Grabby Kirk needs a kick in the balls every once in a while), their interactions, and the adventure that I love.

I know exactly how you feel. If you had asked me a 2 years ago I would have said it was my favorite star trek show. but now after watching the series on netflix i can barley watch it for all the reasons you listed above. hopefuly the new blu ray releases will help my opinion of it. I think the original series has aged much better then tng.

TREK_GOD_1 July 18 2013 02:30 AM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
Quote:

Takeru wrote: (Post 8391631)
I despise McCoy for example, I understand he's supposed to be the emotional one of the main trio but being emotional doesn't mean you have to act like a racist hick.

One, he's nothing of the sort.

Two, Spock relentlessly insulted the human race throughout all three seasons of TOS in manner most would see as racist. However, because Spock is the "outsider" amongst humans, some observers develop politically selective glasses through which the series is analyzed.


Quote:

I also don't think Star Trek was as smart as some fans (and apparently Roddenberry himself) seemed to believe, the crew of the Enterprise and human values were always shown to be right and "good", an alien society with alien behavior shows up? Expect them to be fixed by Kirk at the end of the episode.
Every storry does not require a multi-episode arc.

Quote:

And the often cited allegories to 60s problems were so obvious and on the nose they make me groan, like the "Racism is stupid" episode with the black/white aliens.
Oh, and did you think the TNG episode with Riker's romance with the androgynous alien was subtle in its sociopolital message? That was a sledgehammer strapped with a grenade in Star Trek trappings.

How about the suicide of Yassim in DS9's "Rocks and Shoals?" Gee, like the source for that death was missed by anyone.

ichab July 18 2013 02:40 AM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
Quote:

tmosler wrote: (Post 8390947)
After reading many fourms on tos i am confused at the negativity toward the show. As much as i like tng and for the most part ds9 tos was always my favorite. Most of the negativity revolves around it being cheesy,dated, and goofy which i can see in some episodes (the naked time and this side of paridise ) but for me this makes it even more enjoyable. Also in addition to the new remastered effects the character interaction between spock, mcoy, and kirk and more focus on exploration then tng makes it my favorite star trek show. Lastly there was lots more action then tng ever had and i feel it had the best humor which for the most part other trek series failed at. You can comment on whether you like the show and why below

Being who I am I'd reply that TOS and it's characters were so cheesy that it was pulled out of retirement in order to reboot the franchise after the disaster that was the TNG movies. ;)

But seriously, I enjoyed the TOS for what it was. They did a damn good job with the puny budget they had and watching it again remastered with updated effects is a real treat. And I still say as a whole that most of their movies were heads and shoulders about the TNG ones with the exception of First Contact.

TNG was a show I enjoyed during its run but hasn't kept the same interest for me as the years went on. It was too preachy its first few seasons and after finally hitting its stride in seasons 3 and 4 started to play it way too safe the rest of the way. That's probably why I enjoy DS9 so much. It was the anti-TNG show.:techman:

ichab July 18 2013 02:44 AM

Re: why is star trek original series disliked
 
Quote:

Carcazoid wrote: (Post 8393434)
In the 1960s all tv shows were cheesy and goofy. Everything about 60s pop culture was cheesy and goofy.

Except for the stuff that was awesome. :lol:

Being someone that grew up in the 80s I'd say my era beats the 60s hands down when it comes to pure cheese. Looking back at the flock of sea gulls hair, parachute pants and glam rock I'd say we even managed to beat the 70s and their bell bottoms.:lol:


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