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-   -   Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=219406)

Ain Jalut July 11 2013 08:01 PM

Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
Not necessarily the character. The way he looks:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2537/wrhx.jpg

As far as i know that's not how he looks in his well known portraits and he also looks way less imposing thanin let's say Mongol, one of his recent visual biographies. They really went with the tiny scary asian stereotype.
Genghis from Serge Bodrov's Mongol:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4603/1y2u.jpg

Ethros July 11 2013 08:18 PM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
Well, whenever I hear or read "Genghis Khan" I think of him looking like this-

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ps36e76013.jpg

:D

Christopher July 11 2013 09:18 PM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
What character? "Curtain"'s version of Genghis is a mute henchman. He's not a character, he's a prop. And yes, I dislike that intensely. It's terribly racist. The historical Genghis Khan was one of the most accomplished military and political leaders in the history of the world. He built the largest, most enduring land-based empire the pre-industrial world ever saw. And despite his Western reputation as nothing but a berserk killer, he was actually an accomplished coalition-builder, known for his tolerance and inclusiveness. An accurate version of Genghis would've been the leader of his team, not a lackey to Col. Green, and Kirk and Spock probably wouldn't have stood a chance against him.

Timo July 11 2013 09:43 PM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
But that's missing the mark rather widely. Kirk's adversaries in that game were all supposed to be stereotypes. That was the very thing the Excalbians were hoping to dig out of Kirk's memories, and if they succeeded with Genghis, congratulations to them. Although it's not unexpected, as Kirk isn't a great scholar of history (beyond the 19th century United States, and even there stereotypes abound).

"Lincoln" isn't a great likeness of Lincoln there, either, nor a halfway accurate portrayal. And he's not supposed to be. Kirk would have seen much more Lincoln fiction than Lincoln documentation in his life, so it's quite a wonder the simulation doesn't actually look like Daniel Day-Lewis or perhaps Robert Marsden...

Timo Saloniemi

Pavonis July 11 2013 10:00 PM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
I wonder what the Excalbians really learned from their staged battle between "good" and "evil". I'm no psychologist, but if I understand the field at all, the experimenter doesn't tell the subject what the test is really about - that would taint the results!

Let's look at the examples of "evil" pulled from Kirk and Spock's minds.

Genghis Khan, an example of a nasty, cruel conqueror (in Kirk's mind at least, if not in reality [who can be an expert in all things?]).
Colonel Green, a fanatic despot from the 21st century.
Kahless, a leader of the Klingon Empire.
Zora, a "mad scientist" type.

And the "good" examples -

"Honest Abe" Lincoln, a freer of slaves and defender of freedom.
Surak, a proponent of logic over emotion.

And then there are Kirk and Spock. Why are they on the "good" side? Why weren't two more illusions of good included? The Excalbian automatically cast Kirk and Spock as "good" guys, yet they claim to not really grasp the distinction between good and evil. Why not side Kirk and Spock with Genghis Khan and Colonel Green against Zora, Kahless, Lincoln, and Surak (or any other combination)?

Clearly, something else is being investigated in this faux-contest.

Christopher July 11 2013 11:49 PM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
^Maybe it was really just an Excalbian reality show. If you can call that reality.

The fact is, it's a pretty lame episode. It's mainly noteworthy for introducing Surak and Kahless, both of whom have been better handled in later works. (Col. Green was mentioned and briefly glimpsed in ENT's final 2-parter, but not heavily featured.)

The Wormhole July 12 2013 02:42 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
Quote:

Pavonis wrote: (Post 8366173)
And then there are Kirk and Spock. Why are they on the "good" side? Why weren't two more illusions of good included?

Well, the real world reason, of course is because it eliminates the need for two more guest stars which helps the episode come in under budget.

Mr. Laser Beam July 12 2013 02:46 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 8366599)
(Col. Green was mentioned and briefly glimpsed in ENT's final 2-parter, but not heavily featured.)

And would have had a part in the Augments arc, before they re-wrote it and created Arik Soong in his place. They even made a flag for Green. But the only time that flag was ever shown was in "In a Mirror, Darkly".

Nerys Myk July 12 2013 03:12 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
So, you're saying he doesn't look like this:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ps62b8f33c.jpg

Pondwater July 12 2013 03:26 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
What do you expect from a perception from a Excalibain (Yarnek) that looks like a pile of... ummm...trash bags.

Christopher July 12 2013 03:40 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
^Except Yarnek took the images of these historical figures from Kirk's and Spock's minds. Clearly both of them have huge gaps in their knowledge of Earth history. (And not just Earth history. It's rather hard to believe that Kirk had never before heard of Surak.)

Ain Jalut July 12 2013 04:26 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
Quote:

Pavonis wrote: (Post 8366173)

Genghis Khan, an example of a nasty, cruel conqueror (in Kirk's mind at least, if not in reality [who can be an expert in all things?]).

He was a nasty, tough conqueror who realised at the end of his life that civilisation has some value. A product of his age and all of that but i doubt he was not a nice guy.

Quote:

Christopher:

He built the largest, most enduring land-based empire the pre-industrial world ever saw.
Large, yes, but it splinterred into smaller states fairly quickly.

Mario de Monti July 12 2013 09:00 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
Quote:

Ethros wrote: (Post 8365654)
Well, whenever I hear or read "Genghis Khan" I think of him looking like this-

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ps36e76013.jpg

:D

Oh absolutely! Party on, dude :D

Infern0 July 12 2013 09:06 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
Quote:

Ethros wrote: (Post 8365654)
Well, whenever I hear or read "Genghis Khan" I think of him looking like this-

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ps36e76013.jpg

:D

First thing i thought of :rommie::bolian:

Ensign_Redshirt July 12 2013 11:13 AM

Re: Anybody else dislikes Genghis Khan from Savage Curtain
 
"Team Evil" isn't really a Team Evil as long as Hitler and Khan aren't invited. :P


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