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-   -   Should Illia and Decker have survived ? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=218599)

Belz... July 3 2013 09:48 PM

Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
I realise that, because of the changes to the story they made when converting In Thy Image into TMP, their sacrifice makes sense, but I quite like the addition of Decker and Illia, so I wonder who else thinks it would've been better if they had "survived" the movie and came back for the sequels.

What do you think ?

And what about Xon ? Would it have been better if Saavik had been given his role in TWOK+ or if he had somehow been included in TMP ?

Bry_Sinclair July 3 2013 09:54 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
I loved Decker and Ilia. They had an interesting dynamic amidst the established setting, plus he showed Kirk up (which he definitely needs more often than not).

Xon would have been interesting to have seen as well, though not at the cost of Saavik (she was one of the elements I liked most about TWOK).

Sran July 3 2013 09:57 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Not with the way TMP was written. If the film had progressed more along the lines of how Phase II was originally envisioned, then keeping them around would have made more sense. As it stands, I'm fine with their character concepts being used for Riker and Troi.

--Sran

CorporalClegg July 3 2013 10:16 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Except Decker wasn't an ass. And Illia could fly a ship.

Mysterion July 3 2013 10:41 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

Bry_Sinclair wrote: (Post 8332129)
I loved Decker and Ilia. They had an interesting dynamic amidst the established setting, plus he showed Kirk up (which he definitely needs more often than not).

Xon would have been interesting to have seen as well, though not at the cost of Saavik (she was one of the elements I liked most about TWOK).

Decker, Ilia, and Xon ended up becoming (more or less, for all intents) Riker, Troi, and Data. Hopefully, if there'd been a Phase II TV series, Decker and Ilia would have ended up being more interesting/likeable than Riker and Troi were. As for Xon, I fear the poor guy would have been scorned as just being a "Spock clone" (aka "The Pulaski Effect" seen in TNG's second season).

Greg Cox July 3 2013 10:43 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Given that Decker and Ilia were basically the first drafts of Riker and Troi, I don't feel like we were particularly deprived of their characters. And if they'd kept Ilia, we probably would have never gotten Saavik in the next movie . . ..

CorporalClegg July 3 2013 11:06 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Honestly, Ilia is a much better character than Saavik.

Greg Cox July 3 2013 11:11 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

CorporalClegg wrote: (Post 8332501)
Honestly, Ilia is a much better character than Saavik.

I'm curious: why do you feel that way?

Therin of Andor July 3 2013 11:19 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

Belz... wrote: (Post 8332096)
I quite like the addition of Decker and Illia, so I wonder who else thinks it would've been better if they had "survived" the movie and came back for the sequels.

I was ready for new Decker and Ilia adventures in January 1980.

I was thrilled when I ordered an "In Thy Image" script from then-Lincoln Enterprises and it showed that only the Ilia Probe (aka Tasha) was extinguished when the new V'ger entity departed with Decker, and that, originally, Ilia was suddenly restored at the end. And, IIRC, Decker sends a hopeful message that he may not be gone forever.

The plan for Decker was that a solution to his return would be explained at the beginning of which ever episode was selected to be Episode #2.

Of course, in the novelization of TMP, the ship also lost a security guard, Phillips, to V'ger's digitization, and Kirk commends him along with Decker and Ilia when he lists them as "missing".
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Ph...%28security%29

BTW, Ilia did survive (at least for a few panels) in the first LA Times Syndicate's daily comic strip sequel to TMP, which probably started using an "In Thy Image" script and the assumption that Ilia would be a continuing character.

Quote:

And what about Xon ?
Did you realise that, according to signage used onscreen in ST II, Xon has an office at Starfleet HQ? The sign was auctioned off in the It's a Wrap! eBay auctions!

I'd always hoped they'd bring Xon and David Gautreaux into TNG or DS9, although DC Comics' "The Origin of Saavik" two-parter, he was sent off on a distant, secret mission... which caused difficulties for Saavik, who'd been bonded with him when first rescued from Hellguard, and she has suddenly entered the pon farr.

Saavik, as written in one of the story proposals for ST II, was originally a male character, Dr Savik.

Sran July 3 2013 11:54 PM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

CorporalClegg wrote: (Post 8332237)
Except Decker wasn't an ass. And Illia could fly a ship.

But wasn't Sulu actually the one flying the ship? As for Decker, it's hard to know if he was an ass or not. He clearly wasn't in the best of moods for most of TMP, but that's probably Kirk's fault for taking his ship away from him.

--Sran

CorporalClegg July 4 2013 12:15 AM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

Greg Cox wrote: (Post 8332537)
Quote:

CorporalClegg wrote: (Post 8332501)
Honestly, Ilia is a much better character than Saavik.

I'm curious: why do you feel that way?

Just more interesting, mostly because she at least displayed some semblance of being alien.

Alley-Saavik was more human than Spock, and Curtis-Saavik was just female Spock. Ilia was uniquely different and had a lot of untapped potential with her healing ability and oath of celibacy (something that should've been explored more in the film). Android Ilia would have also had her own brand of distinctiveness had they chosen to go that route.

Plus, of the three, I think Khambatta was the most talented.

Sran July 4 2013 12:27 AM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

CorporalClegg wrote: (Post 8332858)

Alley-Saavik was more human than Spock, and Curtis-Saavik was just female Spock.

As Alley-Saavik was half-Romulan, it's not surprising that she had a more emotional persona than Spock. Curtis was told by Nimoy to play the character with as little emotion as possible (the Romulan angle was never used on screen, and Nimoy decided to ignore it), so it makes sense that she would have been more like Spock.

--Sran

EliyahuQeoni July 4 2013 12:43 AM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8332897)
Quote:

CorporalClegg wrote: (Post 8332858)

Alley-Saavik was more human than Spock, and Curtis-Saavik was just female Spock.

As Alley-Saavik was half-Romulan, it's not surprising that she had a more emotional persona than Spock.

Not really, since Vulcans and Romulans are biologically identical. The Vulcan repression/control of emotions is a cultural development, not a biological one.

Sran July 4 2013 12:46 AM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

EliyahuQeoni wrote: (Post 8332996)
Not really, since Vulcans and Romulans are biologically identical. The Vulcan repression/control of emotions is a cultural development, not a biological one.

True, but if we're to believe Saavik's backstory, her being raised on Hellguard would certainly explain why she's rougher around the edges than the typical Vulcan.

--Sran

Therin of Andor July 4 2013 01:32 AM

Re: Should Illia and Decker have survived ?
 
Quote:

EliyahuQeoni wrote: (Post 8332996)
Not really, since Vulcans and Romulans are biologically identical.

Actually, Jack B Sowards probably didn't realise that. His script directions say,

Quote:

LT. SAAVIK is young and beautiful. She is half Vulcan and half Romulan. In appearance she is Vulcan with pointed ears, but her skin is fair and she has none of the expressionless facial immobility of a Vulcan.
He seemingly assumes that full Romulans were at least physically distinguishable from Vulcans?


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