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-   -   William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=218467)

Tom July 2 2013 08:07 PM

William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
William T. Riker, a jerk? a hero? or just misunderstood? Let us weigh all his bad moments vs. all his good moments. We are not just taking about actions like saving the Federation from the Borg, but how he deals with other people and how other people view him.

BillJ July 2 2013 08:49 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
He was pretty useless after The Best of Both Worlds. Probably would've been more fondly remembered if Frakes had left the show after the season four premiere.

Sran July 2 2013 08:51 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
Would have been remembered more fondly had he left the series after Picard was rescued from the Borg. Aside from "Second Chances" and "The Pegasus," I don't remember him having that many worthwhile episodes post-season four.

--Sran

R. Star July 2 2013 08:55 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
Riker was pretty much the lynch pin in the TNG command clique. If you're fortunate enough to be a member of their circle, everything's great. But if you're an outsider, such as Barclay, Ro, Shelby, Jellico, Lavelle and so forth he's in full condescending jerk mode. Even with his clone... well the second one. He killed the first one.

He's a competent officer, but he does carry a lot of baggage as demonstrated with his daddy issues, frequent womanizing and his all but idolizing of Picard. Gotta agree with BillJ and Sran, he'd have been much more fondly remembered if he took a command and just showed up in a guest role in the last three seasons, but that wasn't going to happen even if it would've made sense in the Trekverse.

Tom July 2 2013 08:59 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
Well Tom Riker was the first clone technically, just discovered 4 seasons after he killed the other one.

Sran July 2 2013 09:08 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8327272)
Riker was pretty much the lynch pin in the TNG command clique. If you're fortunate enough to be a member of their circle, everything's great. But if you're an outsider, such as Barclay, Ro, Shelby, Jellico, Lavelle and so forth he's in full condescending jerk mode. Even with his clone... well the second one. He killed the first one.

This has come up a lot lately. Riker was the worst example, but it seemed like the entire senior staff (minus Picard) had this problem to a lesser degree. They didn't treat outsiders well, and none of them seemed to have any friends away from Enterprise. Contrast that with Sisko's bunch, who had friends everywhere, and it's not hard to see why almost none of the TNG crew had assignments elsewhere during their careers (around the time of TNG's run). Only Crusher and Worf had other postings. When Riker finally left, he took Troi with him (and several other Enterprise crew members).

--Sran

jimbotron July 2 2013 09:29 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
My wife is....not a fan. She nicknamed him Dickweed Smarmbeard. (Smarmchin for season 1)

Mojochi July 2 2013 09:36 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8327320)
This has come up a lot lately. Riker was the worst example, but it seemed like the entire senior staff (minus Picard) had this problem to a lesser degree. They didn't treat outsiders well, and none of them seemed to have any friends away from Enterprise. Contrast that with Sisko's bunch, who had friends everywhere, and it's not hard to see why almost none of the TNG crew had assignments elsewhere during their careers (around the time of TNG's run). Only Crusher and Worf had other postings. When Riker finally left, he took Troi with him (and several other Enterprise crew members).

--Sran

^O'Brien was an Enterprise transplant too, & there is some truth to the senior staff having old friends mentioned or creeping in on occasion, but with that said, it's kind of hard to disagree with any of the sentiments posted so far

I always found it weird that when Ro returned in Preemptive Strike everyone was so welcoming, when ultimately, only Guinan, Picard & maybe Geordi, (a tiny bit in The Next Phase) ever connected with her at all

Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8327272)
Riker was pretty much the lynch pin in the TNG command clique. If you're fortunate enough to be a member of their circle, everything's great. But if you're an outsider, such as Barclay, Ro, Shelby, Jellico, Lavelle and so forth he's in full condescending jerk mode. Even with his clone... well the second one. He killed the first one.

You can add Nella Darren to that list too, & pretty much everyone of the crew members featured in Lower Decks along with Lavelle, except maybe Ogawa. She seemed to fit in well enough

You do see some of the same faces showing up at onboard social functions, & celebrations too, which would seem to indicate that at least the other bridge officers got along well enough with the senior staff

Sran July 2 2013 10:23 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
Quote:

Mojochi wrote: (Post 8327467)
^O'Brien was an Enterprise transplant too, & there is some truth to the senior staff having old friends mentioned or creeping in on occasion, but with that said, it's kind of hard to disagree with any of the sentiments posted so far

O'Brien's a little different because he wasn't a senior officer. His DS9 gig was a huge promotion for him, as he was only a transporter operator on TNG. In any case, I stand by my earlier comments. The Enterprise was the most sought after assignment in Starfleet, so it's not surprising that some of the senior officers and department heads would be somewhat snooty, but for all of them to be that way doesn't make much sense. Picard was never that way. The problem seemed to start with Riker and work its way down.

--Sran

JirinPanthosa July 3 2013 08:05 AM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
You should be able to select multiple options here. He's great AND a jerk!

I think the reason Enterprise culture seemed more insular than DS9 was that there was less traffic through Enterprise. People didn't come to the Enterprise on vacation, and there aren't random business dealings going on throughout the ship. Anyone on Enterprise was there for official business, so there were less opportunities to show off a character's social circle.

But it seemed to me Riker had plenty of friends off the Enterprise, more than the rest of the crew except Picard. Not even counting his parade of one night stands he had connections at seedy gambling joints, multiple references to former crew.

I liked Riker's role in the command structure. It's true he didn't have a 'specialty' like most of the other crew so he had less opportunities to save the day but he was always able to make efficient command decisions in pressure situations.

I'm not sure I would classify those examples as snooty so much as, on a Starfleet ship having the expectation of Roddenberrian Starfleet discipline. Not unreasonable for a military command structure, IMO.

CorporalClegg July 3 2013 08:27 AM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
Frakes is awesome.

Riker is a douche.

T'Girl July 3 2013 12:23 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
I liked early Riker a lot better, the fast track, career minded, hot-shot.

Riker was reduced by not getting him own command in best of both worlds, plus we found out that Riker had been refusing offers of commands to remain first officer.

I lost considerable respect for him when he murdered his defenseless clone in cold blood, why not just cut off his head with a sword while yelling "there can be only one."

:)

Tosk July 3 2013 12:49 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
I can't vote 'cause there's no combo option. He's awesome and a jerk.

Jeyl July 3 2013 01:27 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
I wish Shelby had replaced him.

Use of Time July 3 2013 02:48 PM

Re: William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise
 
Shelby would have been great.


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