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-   -   Why didn't they just keep their characters? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=218410)

bbjeg July 2 2013 04:05 AM

Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Why didn't they keep Marc Alaimo's character Gul Macet, in TNG's "The Wounded" instead of creating DS9's Gul Dukat or keep Robert Duncan McNeill's character Nick Locarno in "The First Duty" instead of creating Tom Paris? They were basically playing the same characters, why the switch?

Any other similar actor as same character roles?

Dream July 2 2013 04:10 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
They didn't want Nick Locarno in "The First Duty" because using him as a main character on VOY would mean Paramount would have to pay "The First Duty" writers every time they used the Locarno character. They didn't want to do that so they created Tom Paris for Robert Duncan to play.

bbjeg July 2 2013 04:18 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
That's lame, I didn't know it was because of money.

Charles Phipps July 2 2013 04:43 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Yeah, just assume that the character from the First Duty is Tom Paris under a pseudonym. He legally changed his name or something.

ZapBrannigan July 2 2013 04:51 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 8324506)
They didn't want Nick Locarno in "The First Duty" because using him as a main character on VOY would mean Paramount would have to pay "The First Duty" writers every time they used the Locarno character. They didn't want to do that so they created Tom Paris for Robert Duncan to play.


I thought Paramount owned the intellectual property; they bought it from the writer for cash up front.

Did Carey Wilber ("Space Seed") get royalties for THE WRATH OF KHAN? I don't think he did. Paramount owns the characters, the music, the whole deal.

Mr. Laser Beam July 2 2013 04:56 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

Charles Phipps wrote: (Post 8324596)
Yeah, just assume that the character from the First Duty is Tom Paris under a pseudonym. He legally changed his name or something.

No, I don't think that would work.

Nick Locarno is a smarmy jackass who tried to cover up his involvement in a crash that killed a teammate and encouraged the rest of Nova Squadron to do the same.

Tom Paris may have also gotten a teammate killed, but he came clean and admitted it. He could have got away scot free, but he confessed to what he did. Locarno would never have done that.

Tom Paris was redeemable; Locarno was not.

I am not Spock July 2 2013 07:30 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Macet and Dukat were retconned as relatives or something, in the novel series, I think

C.E. Evans July 2 2013 07:47 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 8324626)
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 8324506)
They didn't want Nick Locarno in "The First Duty" because using him as a main character on VOY would mean Paramount would have to pay "The First Duty" writers every time they used the Locarno character. They didn't want to do that so they created Tom Paris for Robert Duncan to play.


I thought Paramount owned the intellectual property; they bought it from the writer for cash up front.

Did Carey Wilber ("Space Seed") get royalties for THE WRATH OF KHAN? I don't think he did. Paramount owns the characters, the music, the whole deal.

I think it varies from writer to writer and what contract is signed at the time. Harlan Ellison, for example, sued both CBS and Paramount for the use of elements from the TOS classic "City on the Edge of Forever" in various tie-in stuff and a settlement was reached.

"It ain’t about the ‘principle,’ friend, it's about the MONEY! Pay Me!"
--Harlan Ellison

Charles Phipps July 2 2013 08:23 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 8324647)

No, I don't think that would work.

Nick Locarno is a smarmy jackass who tried to cover up his involvement in a crash that killed a teammate and encouraged the rest of Nova Squadron to do the same.

Tom Paris may have also gotten a teammate killed, but he came clean and admitted it. He could have got away scot free, but he confessed to what he did. Locarno would never have done that.

Tom Paris was redeemable; Locarno was not.

It's not redemption if you have nothing to redeem.

Skywalker July 2 2013 08:24 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 8324647)
Quote:

Charles Phipps wrote: (Post 8324596)
Yeah, just assume that the character from the First Duty is Tom Paris under a pseudonym. He legally changed his name or something.

No, I don't think that would work.

Nick Locarno is a smarmy jackass who tried to cover up his involvement in a crash that killed a teammate and encouraged the rest of Nova Squadron to do the same.

Tom Paris may have also gotten a teammate killed, but he came clean and admitted it. He could have got away scot free, but he confessed to what he did. Locarno would never have done that.

Tom Paris was redeemable; Locarno was not.

I don't know about you, but a guy who's already owned up to his mistakes before the show's even started doesn't sound particularly compelling to me.

Mario de Monti July 2 2013 08:30 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 8324647)
Nick Locarno is a smarmy jackass who tried to cover up his involvement in a crash that killed a teammate and encouraged the rest of Nova Squadron to do the same.

Tom Paris may have also gotten a teammate killed, but he came clean and admitted it. He could have got away scot free, but he confessed to what he did. Locarno would never have done that.

I think that is a bit unfair and too simplified. True, Locarno did try to cover up what had happened. But ultimately he took all the blame and the punishment on himself to protect his team and fellow cadets, sacrificing his own career in the process. And the way the others looked up to him, he did have leadership abilities.
Nick Locarno may not be the best Starfleet has to offer, but labeling him a "smarmy jackass" is totally uncalled for, IMO.

As to the topic of this thread, I always found it to be very strange to have the same actor play the same kind of character who had the same background story (colleague killed, pilot error) but to have us believe it´s actually NOT THE SAME character :rolleyes: This never made any sense to me.

Mario

Green Shirt July 2 2013 11:08 AM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

Mario de Monti wrote: (Post 8325022)
labeling him a "smarmy jackass" is totally uncalled for, IMO.
Mario

Agreed. He was more a dickhead than a jackass.

maneth July 2 2013 01:21 PM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
The same could be said for Armin Shimerman, who played the Ferengi Letek on one episode of TNG before being cast as Quark. Of course, in his case it's a bit more understandable, since the Ferengi are shorter than humans on average.

The Wormhole July 2 2013 01:51 PM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

bbjeg wrote: (Post 8324497)
Any other similar actor as same character roles?

In Enterprise's early stages, the Vulcan science officer was going to be T'Pau. But again, having to pay royalties to Amok Time's writer became an issue and the character became the new character T'Pol.

Quote:

maneth wrote: (Post 8325508)
The same could be said for Armin Shimerman, who played the Ferengi Letek on one episode of TNG before being cast as Quark. Of course, in his case it's a bit more understandable, since the Ferengi are shorter than humans on average.

Armin Shimerman in fact played two different Ferengi before becoming Quark. In addition to Letek, he was also Bractor in TNG's Peak Performance.

Belz... July 2 2013 02:09 PM

Re: Why didn't they just keep their characters?
 
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 8324506)
They didn't want Nick Locarno in "The First Duty" because using him as a main character on VOY would mean Paramount would have to pay "The First Duty" writers every time they used the Locarno character. They didn't want to do that so they created Tom Paris for Robert Duncan to play.

Wouldn't any character they wrote for the series be property of Paramount at the time ? Isn't that standard practice, that the stuff you write for the series isn't yours, like programs you code for a company aren't yours ?


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