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-   -   Was There Enough DETONATION? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=217810)

StarMan June 25 2013 04:16 AM

Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
I'm always sheepish to admit that I love a well-choreographed space battle in Star Trek. I have been shot down by the more devoted fan-type who insists Star Trek is about something more noble than wanton spectacle. Well, fine then; I love the deep and meaningful stuff as well. However, I just have this thing for awesome fucking space battles and - goddammit - why were they not in STiD?

The scenes we got seemed so brief - my appetite had been whet but we never got to the main course. I'm curious to know if I'm alone in this estimation, is all...

Silversmok3 June 25 2013 08:20 AM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Quote:

StarMan wrote: (Post 8295871)
I'm always sheepish to admit that I love a well-choreographed space battle in Star Trek. I have been shot down by the more devoted fan-type who insists Star Trek is about something more noble than wanton spectacle. Well, fine then; I love the deep and meaningful stuff as well. However, I just have this thing for awesome fucking space battles and - goddammit - why were they not in STiD?

The scenes we got seemed so brief - my appetite had been whet but we never got to the main course. I'm curious to know if I'm alone in this estimation, is all...

Seems you're alone in this regard.

Rest assured,I like a drawn out space battle. But there's no context for it in STID. The Enterprise faces off against a ship which completely outclasses it in every respect. The fact that the Enterprise lasted as long as it did was a miracle.

When Ship A has ten times the firepower as Ship B, there's no plausible way to write a script calling for a long space battle between the two. The audience would be logically thinking "why doesn't Ship A just blast Ship B out of the stars?" A good example of how bad that is can be seen in Generations. Anyone casually versed in Trek tech knows a Galaxy class ship would utterly crush a Klingon Bird of Prey, shields or no. Yet that's not how it turned out on screen-But we got a long space fight out of it!:rolleyes:

RoJoHen June 25 2013 08:28 AM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
I would settle for more glamour shots of the Enterprise. Our introduction to the ship in ST09 when Kirk looks out the window of the shuttle just didn't cut it for me. I'm not saying I need a 5-minute tour around the ship like we had in TMP, but I'd like something.

CorporalCaptain June 25 2013 09:49 AM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Quote:

Silversmok3 wrote: (Post 8296570)
When Ship A has ten times the firepower as Ship B, there's no plausible way to write a script calling for a long space battle between the two. The audience would be logically thinking "why doesn't Ship A just blast Ship B out of the stars?" A good example of how bad that is can be seen in Generations. Anyone casually versed in Trek tech knows a Galaxy class ship would utterly crush a Klingon Bird of Prey, shields or no. Yet that's not how it turned out on screen-But we got a long space fight out of it!:rolleyes:

In the case of STID, I don't think that's so. Scotty was aboard the Vengeance, so he could have done whatever sabotage was necessary to even the odds. In fact, he did, though the Enterprise couldn't fight at that point. Giving the Enterprise the ability to fight would have fundamentally altered the rest of the film, though.

I am not Spock June 25 2013 11:25 AM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Quote:

Silversmok3 wrote: (Post 8296570)
Quote:

StarMan wrote: (Post 8295871)
I'm always sheepish to admit that I love a well-choreographed space battle in Star Trek. I have been shot down by the more devoted fan-type who insists Star Trek is about something more noble than wanton spectacle. Well, fine then; I love the deep and meaningful stuff as well. However, I just have this thing for awesome fucking space battles and - goddammit - why were they not in STiD?

The scenes we got seemed so brief - my appetite had been whet but we never got to the main course. I'm curious to know if I'm alone in this estimation, is all...

Seems you're alone in this regard.

Rest assured,I like a drawn out space battle. But there's no context for it in STID. The Enterprise faces off against a ship which completely outclasses it in every respect. The fact that the Enterprise lasted as long as it did was a miracle.

When Ship A has ten times the firepower as Ship B, there's no plausible way to write a script calling for a long space battle between the two. The audience would be logically thinking "why doesn't Ship A just blast Ship B out of the stars?" A good example of how bad that is can be seen in Generations. Anyone casually versed in Trek tech knows a Galaxy class ship would utterly crush a Klingon Bird of Prey, shields or no. Yet that's not how it turned out on screen-But we got a long space fight out of it!:rolleyes:

I'm not sure the fight between the Ent-D and the bird of prey in Generations was that long. The BOP fired a few times, the Enterprise fired one measley phaser shot, and then one torpedo

teacake June 25 2013 11:51 AM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
I really believe we should have had more detonation.

We didn't even see Marcus's head detonate properly!!

The Wormhole June 25 2013 01:48 PM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Quote:

StarMan wrote: (Post 8295871)
I'm always sheepish to admit that I love a well-choreographed space battle in Star Trek. I have been shot down by the more devoted fan-type who insists Star Trek is about something more noble than wanton spectacle. Well, fine then; I love the deep and meaningful stuff as well. However, I just have this thing for awesome fucking space battles and - goddammit - why were they not in STiD?

The scenes we got seemed so brief - my appetite had been whet but we never got to the main course. I'm curious to know if I'm alone in this estimation, is all...

It's a result of Abrams's "artistic sensibilities." Supposedly, jerky shaky cam that never focuses too long on anything and whatever you do see is obscured by lens flare is how he feels Star Trek should look.

And yeah, where were the detonations? The very first official plot description promised the fleet would be detonated. Yet this didn't happen. WTF?

Pingfah June 25 2013 01:57 PM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
I could see what was going on just fine. Perhaps you need spectacles?

The Wormhole June 25 2013 02:04 PM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Certainly not, indeed I'm the only one in my family who doesn't need glasses at all. I just need the camera to stand still, and for there to not be so many lens flares.

Anyone remember the days when lens flares were considered unprofessional and filmmakers were taught to avoid having them?

bullethead June 25 2013 02:22 PM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Yes, there needed to be more detonations. I expected to see the torpedoes slam into Qo'nos and detonate Ketha.

anh165 June 25 2013 02:31 PM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
The storyline required to put Kirk in a situation of being out of his depth.

I thought the engagement between the Vengeance and Enterprise the right sort of space battle.

Silversmok3 June 25 2013 06:01 PM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
The story also reflects a more realistic depiction of combat.

As the Marines say on occasion,if you're in a fair fight you made a tactical mistake somewhere. In real life combat is short,brutal,and efficiently deadly.Just like the fight in STID.

CorporalCaptain June 25 2013 06:22 PM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Quote:

Silversmok3 wrote: (Post 8297908)
The story also reflects a more realistic depiction of combat.

As the Marines say on occasion,if you're in a fair fight you made a tactical mistake somewhere. In real life combat is short,brutal,and efficiently deadly.Just like the fight in STID.

That's an excellent point. The Vengeance got her punches in before Scotty's sabotage, and they counted. That's to be expected in the situation.

M'Sharak June 25 2013 07:42 PM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 8297110)

Anyone remember the days when lens flares were considered unprofessional and filmmakers were taught to avoid having them?

Well, no. If such days ever truly existed, they were before my time and yours.

Basically, if you tried to set up your shot to avoid lens flare and ended up with lens flare anyway, then that was inept and unprofessional. However, if you deliberately set up your shot with the intent to produce lens flare and you got lens flare, then it was an acceptable artistic choice and entirely professional. :)

teacake June 26 2013 12:18 AM

Re: Was There Enough DETONATION?
 
Quote:

bullethead wrote: (Post 8297194)
Yes, there needed to be more detonations. I expected to see the torpedoes slam into Qo'nos and detonate Ketha.

I expected all of London to be detonated, judging by the post-detonation landscape of the posters.

I was looking forward to this.


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