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-   -   Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=217519)

Mr_Homn June 22 2013 06:39 AM

Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
I've never heard of him eating the heart of one of his enemies, and I feel like that would have been mentioned.

Of course we never saw him die in glorious battle, but as an ambassador I doubt he'd get the opportunity. A coward's death is likely.

Doesn't seem like he'd make it into Sto Vo Kor, unless someone won a great battle in his name. Everyone knows that's the wimp's way into Sto Vo Kor though.

Tosk June 22 2013 08:20 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Why would a lack of a glorious battle equal a coward's death?

But anyway, he ditched the ambassador job.

Infern0 June 22 2013 11:34 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
I think he would, he's lived an honourable life and won many great battles.

Sran June 22 2013 02:26 PM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Why is this even a question?

--Sran

Pavonis June 22 2013 05:38 PM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Someone else asked the exact same question once. It's an inane question. It's just an over-the-top generalization of what a "real" Klingon should be and do to be a "real" warrior. It's all based on one of Kor's senile drunken rants, I believe. I think "eating an enemy's heart" is as necessary to being allowed in to Sto-Vo-Kor as avoiding seafood and not wearing different fabrics at the same time are necessary for getting into Heaven.

TheRoyalFamily June 22 2013 07:51 PM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
I think the "eating the heart of the enemy" thing was specific to Kor, because he made a blood oath to do just that, and not fulfilling that oath (nor dying in the attempt) is dishonorable, because blood oaths are srs bsns.

TwoJakes June 22 2013 08:11 PM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
I think he would get in, he's had many victories in combat, and made a sincere effort to live "the way of warrior."

bbailey861 June 23 2013 12:21 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Quote:

Mr_Homn wrote: (Post 8282998)
A coward's death is likely.

Where the heck did that come from?:confused:

solariabsg25 June 23 2013 01:00 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
I don't think Sto Vo Kor is only entered if a Klingon dies in battle, I think he just had to have led an honourable life. In theory I can even see a Klingon who was never in a winning battle, but had still fought with honour and glory, getting in.

If you had to die in battle, why would ANY Klingon ever take a post on the High Council? Or a diplomatic post? Or scientific? If you serve the Empire with honour, in whatever role, that has to count.

Klingon society would be unable to function if everyone HAD to be running around in a Bird of Prey, gloriously fighting their enemies. If dying in glorious battle was the only way in, they would never have signed the Khitomer Accords at all, as peace would condemn millions of Klingons to never be able to enter Sto Vo Kor.

Or, are we saying there's a different Klingon heaven for clerical staff? :klingon:

Vulcan Logician June 23 2013 06:14 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8283559)
Why is this even a question?

--Sran

Why is anything a question, Sran? Let's play along. My opinion is: YES. Because he is honorable and valorous. Political alliances have nothing to do with one's spiritual ascension. Plus, I'm sure that Worf ate a heart somewhere along the way. He just doesn't talk about it much.

Mr_Homn June 23 2013 06:29 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
I guess some of guys forgot the part in ds9 when they said Dax wasn't going to sto vo kor because she didn't die in a glorious battle. So they had to win a battle in her name. O'brien also pointed out she wasn't going to sto vo kor because she didn't eat the heart of one of her enemies. It wasn't just something specific to Kor. These are apparently requirements. Canon, stated in multiple episodes of ds9.

Dale Sams June 23 2013 06:56 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Quote:

Vulcan Logician wrote: (Post 8286880)
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8283559)
Why is this even a question?

--Sran

Why is anything a question, Sran? Let's play along. My opinion is: YES. Because he is honorable and valorous. Political alliances have nothing to do with one's spiritual ascension. Plus, I'm sure that Worf ate a heart somewhere along the way. He just doesn't talk about it much.

Let's keep in mind that when we think of 'the fairness of entering'....that the specifics of getting in to Valhalla were pretty strict also. One may have won many a battle at one time, but ended up having a 'straw death' and...tough titty Teuton.

solariabsg25 June 23 2013 11:17 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Quote:

Mr_Homn wrote: (Post 8286925)
I guess some of guys forgot the part in ds9 when they said Dax wasn't going to sto vo kor because she didn't die in a glorious battle. So they had to win a battle in her name. O'brien also pointed out she wasn't going to sto vo kor because she didn't eat the heart of one of her enemies. It wasn't just something specific to Kor. These are apparently requirements. Canon, stated in multiple episodes of ds9.

The problem with the strict definition of Sto Vo Kor is that it doesn't work for a spacefaring race.

The captain of that 430-crew D7 must DIE in glorious battle to get there, so he has to take a valuable ship and another 429 Klingons with him.

There is no greater honour but victory, well apart from me dying so I can get into Sto Vo Kor. I guess Worf and Kurn weren't going there either, or does ritual suicide count as "dying in glorious battle?"

Lets face it, a lot of Klingon mysticism is contradictory.

As I said, if the ONLY way to get there is die in glorious battle, then the Klingons would have no medical staff, politicians, ambassadors, scientists, manufacturers, absolutely nothing apart from warriors. They could not sign any peace treaty, as they would need to be in constant warfare to get into Sto Vo Kor.

Norse society worked with the concept of Valhalla but they had slaves and serfs to tend the crops and the fields. Their women also helped to run things, but in Klingon society women are just as determined to get into Sto Vo Kor as the men, and there is no on-screen evidence of a huge slave population.

The other problem with the Norse philosophy is that if they had to die in glorious combat, why did the Norse raiders pick on soft targets in England?

Also the Norse weren't as obsessed with the afterlife as people think, as the settlers in England became farmers, not prowling the land looking for a good brawl where they may die in battle.

REDrake June 23 2013 11:39 AM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Klingons are not vikings. A decent Klingon after he dies in a battle, would also need to to force his way into Sto Vo Kor. :klingon:

Timo June 23 2013 01:45 PM

Re: Would Worf get into Sto Vo Kor?
 
Will Worf go to Sto Vo Kor? Well, only if it exists. And its existence would appear to depend chiefly on whether Worf believes in it. If he does, I'd think the odds are that he would also believe he's eligible to enter - and that's all it would take.

Of course, it's all merely taking place in the dark, oxygen-starved corners of Worf's dying mind before the final nothingness sets in. But while Worf is a great worrier in life, I don't think he would wallow in self-doubt at the very moment of his death. He'd make damn sure he was in a deep purple haze of glory when the end came, no matter what its exact form.

Timo Saloniemi


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