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-   -   If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=217498)

xvicente June 22 2013 02:51 AM

If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Kirstie Alley or Robin Curtis?

Andymator June 22 2013 02:58 AM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Well, it would have been Kirstie Alley. From what I've heard the whole reason Nick Meyer changed the character to Valeris was because having Alley come back wasn't going to happen...

But if you're asking what I would have prefered the answer is also Alley.

Argus Skyhawk June 22 2013 05:26 AM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
I had heard that Roddenberry nixed the idea of making Saavik turn out to be the bad guy.

Anyway, I would have been happy with either actress, but I would have agreed with Roddenberry, assuming I heard correctly.

TheSubCommander June 22 2013 05:35 AM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
For me, Robin Curtis was the better Saavik, except for her hair. She was more Vulcan-like. Alley may have looked better to some (then), but I always preferred Robin Curtis, and I think she DEFINITELY has held up better over the years than Alley. Not to mention, Alley's Saavik was way too human acting for me.

But I am glad Saavik wasn't a traitor.

Lance June 22 2013 05:41 AM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Which came first, Alley saying no to coming back, or Roddenberry kvetching about Saavik being the traitor? One suspects that both events together led to Meyer re-evaluating Saavik's role in the script. I've never heard that he ever even considered asking Curtis back.

The third story is that Kim Cattrall was offered the role after Alley turned it down, but she wasn't keen on simply resurrecting Saavik so Meyer retailored the script to give her a bit more freedom in the role.

Maybe the real explanation is a combination of all three events?

TREK_GOD_1 June 22 2013 01:19 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Quote:

TheSubCommander wrote: (Post 8282860)
For me, Robin Curtis was the better Saavik

I thought Curtis would have been fine as another Vulcan character, but not Saavik. Alley made a strong impression.

solariabsg25 June 22 2013 01:44 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Unfortunately, Valeris did cause one problem with the plot.

There could be a major traitor on the Enterprise!!

Is it :-

A - A character we know?

B - A character we haven't seen before this movie?

Having Saavik as the traitor would have been a bold choice, and would have made Spock's fury more justified IMHO. It would have also needed the character to have to explain why betraying them would have been logical - Valeris had a get-out as, apart from Spock, she hadn't even met anyone else before.

Dukhat June 22 2013 01:47 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Quote:

Argus Skyhawk wrote: (Post 8282842)
I had heard that Roddenberry nixed the idea of making Saavik turn out to be the bad guy.

Anyway, I would have been happy with either actress, but I would have agreed with Roddenberry, assuming I heard correctly.

Roddenberry had nothing whatsoever to do with The Undiscovered Country. For all I know he may indeed have felt that way, but it certainly wasn't the reason why it didn't happen.

Tomalak June 22 2013 01:59 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Yeah, he wasn't even that heavily involved with TNG, let alone the movies. I think he was still technically "creative consultant", but that amounted to passing some script notes that didn't need to be acted on. It's always been said in the official record that it was Roddenberry's insistence that a much-loved character shouldn't be the traitor, but I don't know how much truth there was to that. It sounds plausible, given he was opposed to our heroes having conflicts, but I doubt it was the deciding factor for Nick Meyer.

Wasn't Kim Cattrall Meyer's original first choice for Saavik in TWOK?

Lance June 22 2013 03:02 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Quote:

Tomalak wrote: (Post 8283508)
Wasn't Kim Cattrall Meyer's original first choice for Saavik in TWOK?

That's what I heard.

Allyn Gibson June 22 2013 03:04 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Quote:

Argus Skyhawk wrote: (Post 8282842)
I had heard that Roddenberry nixed the idea of making Saavik turn out to be the bad guy.

Roddenberry did hate the idea, but there wasn't a damned thing he could do about it. Nick Meyer told him to go pound sand. It was Alley's unwillingness to return that necessitated the change to Eris (later Valeris) rather than Roddenberry's ire.

Meyer writes about this in his autobiography. He says, in retrospect, he treated Roddenberry badly and could have handled the situation more diplomatically

Timo June 23 2013 01:17 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Quote:

Having Saavik as the traitor would have been a bold choice, and would have made Spock's fury more justified IMHO.
...But what would have been even bolder would have been to introduce this suspicious Valeris character from out of the left field, and then have Chekov be the traitor!

I mean, Koenig has often been a proponent of doing "spooky" and "dark" Trek, and likes to play dark characters (and was particularly delighted to get the Bester gig). He might well have loved to get written as a conspirator and traitor who almost gets to kill Kirk.

Timo Saloniemi

Allyn Gibson June 23 2013 02:29 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 8287540)
Quote:

Having Saavik as the traitor would have been a bold choice, and would have made Spock's fury more justified IMHO.
...But what would have been even bolder would have been to introduce this suspicious Valeris character from out of the left field, and then have Chekov be the traitor!

I doubt Koenig would have accepted that.

It wasn't unthinkable in 1991 that there could be another original series movie after The Undiscovered Country -- The Ashes of Eden was Shatner's pitch for the seventh film, after all -- and revealing Chekov as the traitor would have logically written him out of the potential next film. Koenig might have liked the development, but he also liked the work, and I think the potential work would have outweighed the development in his mind.

Mysterion June 23 2013 04:41 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
either actor probably would have worked just fine. Having Saavik play that part in the story would have had a lot more dramatic impact and made for a much better movie.

Relayer1 June 23 2013 05:40 PM

Re: If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor
 
I'm thinking that Kirstie Alley might have been too big by then, and Robin Curtis was terrible, so another character was the best option.

I like the character Saavik anyway and am glad they didn't turn her bad...


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