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thestrangequark June 17 2013 03:36 AM

Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
About something big. Nothing trivial, but real worldview changes...or at least something close to that. Have you changed your mind about a divisive political or ethical issue? Have you changed, found, or given up religion? Something else? Was it a gradual shift in perspective or did you have a moment of sudden realization? What led you to your new perspective?

doubleohfive June 17 2013 03:41 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...

I used to think that people who for religious reasons opposed equal marriage were hateful, bigoted assholes because of it.

As I've gotten older and learned to be more even-keeled with some of my more extreme and liberal ideas, I've realized that isn't always the case. Sure there are hateful, bigoted assholes out there who use their religion as a shield to proudly oppose the progress toward the freedom to marry for all, but not everyone does that.

If anything, it's helped me to recognize that everyone has a right to their own religious beliefs and if yours says that equal marriage is wrong, that's great - for you. Where I now draw the line is if someone thinks that because their religion dictates banning equal marriage, it therefore gives them the right to dictate that same belief to others and impose it upon them, which I whole-heartedly and absolutely cannot support or see as anything other than outright assholery.

A subtle difference, yes. But I'm still learning.

auntiehill June 17 2013 04:09 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
I don't think I've ever really changed my mind on a very serious issue. There have been times where I've become more willing to see both sides or become less dismissive of the other viewpoint, but most of the time, I tend to stick with my general beliefs without any radical changes.

I have changed my mind in that I've not pursued things that were once very important to me. After years of frustration and delays, I gave up on things that were once very important goals; it seemed the only logical thing to do. It wasn't so much abandoning a point of view so much as realizing that a certain goal was just never going to be reached.

Tosk June 17 2013 05:28 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
My feelings on things have evolved over time, but I can't recall any massive sudden turnaround on anything. Closest thing I can think of is that I gave up on religion once I left childhood. That's not a dig at religious people, I just mean that as a child I had no choice but to be part of the religion my parent believed in.

Third Nacelle June 17 2013 06:10 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
I'm usually a pretty liberal person, but my opinions on gun control and abortion have gone back and forth several times.

I've never believed in an organized religion, but I have bounced between between believing in God, and being agnostic. Even during times when my faith in God was pretty strong, I've never had a firm definition as to who or what God is.

J. Allen June 17 2013 06:44 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
I've changed my mind on a number of things. It will be easier for me if I give you a snapshot of me at two different ages:

Age: 18
Religion: Christian (Non-Denominational, Pentecostal)
Political Affiliation: Staunch Conservative (Republican)
Orientation: Straight*

Age: 33
Religion: None (Atheist, Secular Humanist)
Political Affiliation: Liberal (Independent)
Orientation: Pansexual/Bisexual

Why the change?

The Religion:

I was an ordained, Christian minister, raised in the Pentecostal tradition. My faith was steady and sure, built upon a foundation of trust, and the bedrock of the Bible. I had read it many times, and was absolutely certain of its promises. Now, over time, my faith did change, somewhat. I became ordained at 21, and followed in that fashion until about the age of 25. Around that time, I began to wonder if just maybe some of the things I learned as tradition were wrong. A big splinter in my side was homosexuality. I was unsure about its nature, and the passages I held fast to in the Bible weren't really clear. Oh, they seemed clear to others in my group, but to me, the passages in the New Testament were vague, and I had discarded the Old Testament passages because (a) the Old Testament was the Old Covenant, and (b) the passages were in a section of old rules and laws that never applied to Christians, much less pagans.

I would continue to doubt the veracity of others' studies regarding homosexuality for some time. This began to spread to other issues cited as absolute truth in the Bible. By the time I was 28, I had since become more of a Hippie Jesus kind of follower. I felt that when Jesus talked about loving mankind unconditionally, he really meant it, without provisos or addendums. "Judge not, lest ye be judged," and "Do unto others" became stronger narratives than spiritual legalism. That same year, I began to have serious doubts about my faith and where I stood.

I remember one day, while at work, I was repairing a computer, and I heard an audible "snap." I stopped what I was doing, stood straight up, and said out loud, "I don't believe any of it. It's not real."

That lasted a few weeks, and then I regained my faith, and I thought it was just as strong and sure as ever, but from that point forward, for months, I was plagued by questions, and as someone who always seeks out the truth, even if it is unpleasant, I had to follow those questions to find the answers, and when I finally re-evaluated my stance on faith, and what I believed, I found that I wasn't at all certain that any of it was real. That same week that this became a major issue, I purchased a copy of "The God Delusion," by Richard Dawkins.

I read it from beginning to end in one night, and I was surprised, because Richard was answering questions I had, and was giving me a different perspective on what I was experiencing; an outside perspective; one I desperately needed if I was to balance myself.

Finally, I had drawn my conclusions, that when it came to religion, I no longer believed. I was not a Christian, I was not a theist, I was an atheist, and at the moment, everything turned upside down, and a split second later became right side up. It felt completely natural. I am an atheist today, though I am also a secular humanist.

One thing that did not change in that process was my desire to help people. That continues to this day, as well. One of the reasons I don't automatically get frustrated with hardcore religious people is because I was there at one time, too. Don't get me wrong, back in school there were "devout" Christians who loved to push the Bible, hell, one guy used to hit people with his, right on the head. Some people are assholes regardless of their religion or lack thereof; but I honestly believed I was doing good, that I was helping people. I didn't have a hateful bone in my body. I thought I was doing the right thing, and while ignorance is no excuse, I do have compassion for people who honestly want to do good, and think what they're offering is love, even if it isn't.

The Political Affiliation:

This will be much shorter, as my perspectives on religion were the largest change. My political viewpoint changed over time as well. I became more liberal as I got older. When I was 20, I voted in my first Presidential Election. I voted for George W. Bush. I believed him to be a man of conservative values, and decency. I believed that with him at the helm, we would have a more fiscally conservative government, with more liberties untouched by the government.

This, of course, became a pipe dream rather quickly, following the terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001. I watched as our rights were torn away in a pandemonium caked with fear and outrage. Even as I was furious for what happened to those innocent lives, I was ever cautious about being caught up in a frenzy where our rights would be stripped away in the name of safety. I was (and still am) an avid fan of history, and I was fully aware of what our founding fathers had to say about following the mob mentality, and tyranny of the majority. I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt, and hoped he would surround himself with intelligent advisers. This, of course, didn't happen, and I watched our rights get curtailed, and people just nodding along.

By the time of the 2004 election, I was having a crisis of political faith. The Republican party, and George Bush, had failed to do anything other than create a massive money pit, a sinkhole of patriotic jingoism, erosion of rights, and loss of lives. It was in the voting booth, after spending 20 minutes staring at the ballot, that I made my choice. I chose John Kerry, and told myself next election, I would give the Republicans a chance to wipe the slate clean.

Of course, as we know, Bush won a second term, and in that time, managed to further erode rights, destroyed our international reputation, kept us mired in war, and beat the ever loving hell out of our economy. So I watched and waited as John McCain made his stand, and it was more of the same. By that time, though, I had become moderate. I was no longer convinced either party was going to look out for anyone. Call it shaking out the naivete, if you like.

I did find Obama's message appealing, and I liked that he was an intelligent man, well spoken, technologically savvy, ideologically relevant, and I decided to vote for him. I did it again in 2012, though by that time I was very much liberal. Still, I didn't vote for him because he was a Democrat, I voted for him because a lot of his sentiments echoed my own, and yes, that's what good politicians do, but I do not hold myself to one political party.

I also found, by the time I was 28, that the politics of my faith had relaxed as well, and one of the reasons I had become liberal was because I had adopted the belief that rules and regulations, the letter of the law, was not to be taken so literally, that it was the spirit of the law that mattered more, and I even had the Biblical foundation to support it. Of course, at 28, things were about to change on that front, too.

Okay, that was long, too. Sorry.

The Orientation:
There is an asterisk on the first entry in my comparison at the top. There's a reason for that asterisk. I have been bisexual/pansexual my whole life, as far back as I can remember. It is simply that by the time I reached the age of 18, I was so terrified of it, that I had buried it deep down, and had convinced myself that I couldn't be anything other than 100% straight edge perfectly-hetero-in-every-way-bring-on-the-female-boobies male.

The truth is, though, I remember my first crush at 6. It was a girl. I remember my second crush at 9. It was a girl. I remember my third crush at 11. It was a boy.

Uh oh.

Sure was, and oh boy, that teaching of which had been ingrained in me about the evils of being gay, of having thoughts about someone of the same sex, that was a demon, child, a demon! You were being possessed by the hated lusts of the devil, and if you followed those lusts, even by doing nothing else aside from looking, Jesus knew, and you were going to burn in the eternal fires of hell, weeping, and gnashing your teeth.

Those feelings became much stronger by the time I was 13, and I found myself having serious infatuations with both boys and girls. I was panicking, because I was living more and more for God every day, but those feelings kept crushing down on me. I had convinced myself it was just Satan trying to take me and make me a bad person, because yes, I equated being gay with being a horrible, evil person. My parents never taught me that, but my pastors did. My friends at school who were fellow Christians did, and I believed them.

It wasn't until I was in my mid-20s that I began to deal with my orientation. There was a wonderful young man on this board, mostlyharmless, who was willing to take me through how it felt to be gay, what it was like to feel love towards someone of the same sex. Such a kind spirited person, I wish he'd visit here more often. He helped me realize that the emotions were the same, just directed towards different people, and I began to realize that I had put it together backwards. That was also around the time I had been seriously examining my faith, and finding all of the cracks and flaws in my "reasoning." As I've said before, I always want the truth, even if it's unpleasant. I'd rather know, and deal with that knowledge, than live in ignorance.

By my late 20s, I had come to terms with it, and by the age of 30, I had made peace with myself, due in part to all of the shaking up my worldview had taken over the previous number of years. So instead of religion, I began to study love, and to do what I had always done; seek to do good for other people. I consider love the most potent force for change on the planet, and that hasn't changed. I've just learned to refocus the source of that love, rather than its destination.

So there you have it. I have bored you all to death. Questions? Comments? Tea? Cookies? The cookies are delicious.

Pthalo BlueMoon June 17 2013 07:54 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...

I used to be a leftist (bordering on socialist) first wave feminist. True story. I was so liberal that, when I go back and read old threads, I want to slap some sense into me!

What changed my worldview 180 were a few adamant conservatives who beat me over the head with logic instead of feelings.

Oh, it wasn't easy. I was holding on to my point of view, and my pedagogy, with a death grip. However, I grew tired of living in Plato's cave, and embraced what was being shown to me. I am now a moderate conservative.

The marijuana thing is still up for grabs. ;)

Pthalo BlueMoon June 17 2013 07:56 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
Never mind--I really should learn to read. ;)

J. Allen--what is pansexual? And thank you for sharing your story.

J. Allen June 17 2013 08:39 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...

Pthalo BlueMoon wrote: (Post 8258188)
Never mind--I really should learn to read. ;)

J. Allen--what is pansexual? And thank you for sharing your story.

Thank you. :)
Pansexual is a bit of a wibbly wobbly word. It depends upon how you approach it. It's essentially another way of saying "bisexual," though depending upon whom you ask, there are some differences.

The official definition of pansexual (according to Merriam-Webster) is, "exhibiting or implying many forms of sexual expression."

Which is rather vague. In essence, it means that I can be attracted to any gender identity, or biological sex. The reason this works fairly well as bisexuality, is because between male and female, bisexuals can be attracted to both. There are, however, increasingly complex definitions of gender, and biological sex. This is why pansexuality/omnisexuality is gaining a foothold.

For me, the pansexuality/omnisexuality works because I am attracted to whatever I'm attracted. I don't consider gender to play any kind of role in that attraction. If it is anything, it is a footnote, an aside, and isn't at all important. Masculine, feminine, androgynous; male, female, intersexed; doesn't matter.

Hell, the image in my avatar is that of a young man named Frank Wolf. He is very androgynous, and can appear masculine or femine, depending upon how he decides to look for that day, and I find him wildly attractive (cute kitty costume aside, which is also adorable). I mention this for two reasons: First, to give you an idea of what I mean, and second, to forestall any more questions by which the questioner is embarrassed for having asked me who the cute girl is in the picture. :D

So when I tell someone I like them for their personality, or I find intelligence incredibly attractive, I'm not bullshitting.

lurok June 17 2013 09:01 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
Less idealistic and optimistic.

Venardhi June 17 2013 09:07 AM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
I grew up in a fairly conservative Mormon household and my father's family was staunchly republican of military breeding. I am today neither conservative nor Mormon and have only ever voted for anyone with an R next to their name in a local election.

I don't know if it really counts as changing my mind, moreso that when I finally took the time to make up my own mind about these things it turned out that what I believed was wildly different from what I had been told was true. I imagine this is true for most people who find such a revelation in their teens or 20s. There is no mind-changing, but rather a mind revealing.

teacake June 17 2013 01:02 PM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
J.Allen I enjoyed reading your post, thanks for writing it :)

And tsq yeah, I've changed my mind about all kinds of shit. Kind of worries me to think I might change my mind MORE in another twenty years.

thestrangequark June 17 2013 02:32 PM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
J, thanks for sharing your story. I remember when you went through the religious to atheist transition, and I think you demonstrate beautifully that one's character can remain consistent despite a major shift in worldview.

Teacake, I'd rather change my mind often than not at all! Evidence changes, my own knowledge and capability to understand things changes; if all my beliefs and opinions remained the same in the face of that I'd be worried!

Chemahkuu June 17 2013 02:52 PM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
I was a Christian until about the age of 12.

jayceee June 17 2013 04:37 PM

Re: Have You Ever Changed Your Mind...
When I was younger and a lot more naive, I literally had a "religious-like faith" (for lack of a better description) in the notion that everything in the world (and universe) could be logically derived from a small set of mathematical axioms (such as the ZFC axioms).

It took me a very long time to get over this.

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