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-   -   Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=216757)

Bry_Sinclair June 13 2013 10:54 PM

Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
In TWOK when the Reliant is searching for a suitable site for Genesis, wouldn't their computer records show that the Ceti Alpha System was missing a planet when they first arrived (what kind of survey ship would skimp on sensors?), as well as it being the system that Kirk exiled Khan to (something Chekov should have known, since he was apparently onboard at the time)?

sonak June 13 2013 10:58 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

Bry_Sinclair wrote: (Post 8243902)
In TWOK when the Reliant is searching for a suitable site for Genesis, wouldn't their computer records show that the Ceti Alpha System was missing a planet when they first arrived (what kind of survey ship would skimp on sensors?), as well as it being the system that Kirk exiled Khan to (something Chekov should have known, since he was apparently onboard at the time)?


yes, this has been brought up many times before. Plot flaws in TWOK are mostly ignored because people like it, whereas "Generation's" plot flaws are harped on because people dislike it.

Shazam! June 13 2013 10:59 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 8243944)
Plot flaws in TWOK are mostly ignored because people like it, whereas "Generation's" plot flaws are harped on because people dislike it.

Those damn hypocrites. How dare they like one and not the other when they both contain flaws.

Sran June 13 2013 11:00 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
^Not necessarily. Khan himself said that Kirk didn't bother checking up on the colony once the Enterprise left. It's possible that the sector was largely ignored by Starfleet until they needed it as a possible Genesis test site.

--Sran

sonak June 13 2013 11:01 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

Shazam! wrote: (Post 8243953)
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 8243944)
Plot flaws in TWOK are mostly ignored because people like it, whereas "Generation's" plot flaws are harped on because people dislike it.

Those damn hypocrites. How dare they like one and not the other when they both contain flaws.


well, it actually IS hypocritical if the MAIN REASON for disliking it IS THE PLOT FLAWS!

It's not hypocritical if you dislike it for other things.

Sran June 13 2013 11:02 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

Shazam! wrote: (Post 8243953)
Those damn hypocrites. How dare they like one and not the other when they both contain flaws.

:rommie:

--Sran

King Daniel Into Darkness June 13 2013 11:02 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Yep. Wrath of Khan is packed with issues like that.

How did they ever think they were at Ceti Alpha VI if the fifth planet blew up leaving the system without six worlds??

Sran June 13 2013 11:05 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 8243968)
well, it actually IS hypocritical if the MAIN REASON for disliking it IS THE PLOT FLAWS!

What? That's a gross oversimplification! It's entirely plausible to like a film in spite of its plot holes if the overall quality of the film is good enough. It's not hypocrisy: it's common sense.

--Sran

Sran June 13 2013 11:07 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8243974)
How did they ever think they were at Ceti Alpha VI if the fifth planet blew up leaving the system without six worlds??

Because the fifth planet didn't blow up. That would have killed Khan and his followers. The sixth planet blew up and shifted the orbit of the fifth, laying everything on it to waste. Kirk and the rest of Starfleet had no idea what happened because no one bothered to check up on the colony until Reliant visited the system.

--Sran

MacLeod June 13 2013 11:34 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

Shazam! wrote: (Post 8243953)
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 8243944)
Plot flaws in TWOK are mostly ignored because people like it, whereas "Generation's" plot flaws are harped on because people dislike it.

Those damn hypocrites. How dare they like one and not the other when they both contain flaws.

If people are enjoying a film they tend to overlook plot holes to a certain degree. If they aren't enjoying a film plot holes seem to shout out at them.

King Daniel Into Darkness June 13 2013 11:34 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8244013)
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8243974)
How did they ever think they were at Ceti Alpha VI if the fifth planet blew up leaving the system without six worlds??

Because the fifth planet didn't blow up. That would have killed Khan and his followers. The sixth planet blew up and shifted the orbit of the fifth, laying everything on it to waste. Kirk and the rest of Starfleet had no idea what happened because no one bothered to check up on the colony until Reliant visited the system.

--Sran

Sorry, I got a little mixed up. But the point was - how did Reliant ever set course for Ceti Alpha VI when the system now only has five planets?

Sran June 13 2013 11:39 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8244121)
Sorry, I got a little mixed up. But the point was - how did Reliant ever set course for Ceti Alpha VI when the system now only has five planets?

It's a good question. Think of it the following way: when you drive to your house, do you recognize it as your house or as the fourth house on the left? The explosion that destroyed Ceti Alpha VI laid the fifth planet to waste and changed its orbit, making it look like the sixth planet in the process. Add to that the fact that the planets aren't arranged in a straight line (each has a unique orbit), and it's not hard to see why Reliant didn't realize they'd stopped at the fifth planet instead of the sixth.

--Sran

Sran June 13 2013 11:42 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
^To add to what I said above, we also have to consider the route Reliant took into the system. If we assume the fifth and sixth planets are farther from the system's sun than the first and second (like our solar system), Reliant wouldn't necessarily pass by every other planet before reaching its destination.

--Sran

marksound June 13 2013 11:42 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
If CA5 was at or near where CA6 should have been, why look any further?

Sran June 13 2013 11:45 PM

Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?
 
Quote:

Carcazoid wrote: (Post 8244160)
If CA5 was at or near where CA6 should have been, why look any further?

Right, especially if Reliant took the most direct route to where they thought the sixth planet would be. Assuming they reached it without incident, there wouldn't have been a reason to look at the other planets in the system.

--Sran


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