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-   -   Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=216367)

Kirk1980 June 10 2013 07:23 AM

Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
First, we're made to hate this guy and then...well...

Turns out to be a good guy in the end... and then he gets blown up a few episodes later!

I mean, I even got a little misty-eyed when he talked about his evaluation of the Enterprise crew.

JirinPanthosa June 10 2013 07:31 AM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
I feel bad about his ultimate fate, but don't feel particularly bad based on his first appearance.

Hostile interrogations probably weren't the most effective way to find a conspiracy on the Enterprise if there was one. Despite the part at the end, he wouldn't have behaved that way if he didn't get a kick out of it.

Kirk1980 June 10 2013 08:29 AM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Or unless he was ordered to. I'm pretty sure that was part of the Admiral's directive based on the conversation he had with Picard afterward.

Blackhorse47 June 10 2013 10:52 AM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
I've never understood whether we're supposed to believe he's been compromised the first time we meet him. If he has, the first story is an odd one indeed and if he hasn't, the backstory of how the insecty things made him the alien leader is an odd one too.

Dukhat June 10 2013 11:01 AM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Quote:

Blackhorse47 wrote: (Post 8226514)
I've never understood whether we're supposed to believe he's been compromised the first time we meet him. If he has, the first story is an odd one indeed and if he hasn't, the backstory of how the insecty things made him the alien leader is an odd one too.

He's not supposed to be compromised the first time, because that story had nothing to do with the insecty things. It was supposed to be about a serious rebellion in Starfleet, without alien interference. The bug angle came later when Roddenberry didn't like the idea of renegade Starfleet officers. Which is too bad, because that would have been a much better story.

Kevman7987 June 10 2013 05:23 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8226523)
Quote:

Blackhorse47 wrote: (Post 8226514)
I've never understood whether we're supposed to believe he's been compromised the first time we meet him. If he has, the first story is an odd one indeed and if he hasn't, the backstory of how the insecty things made him the alien leader is an odd one too.

He's not supposed to be compromised the first time, because that story had nothing to do with the insecty things. It was supposed to be about a serious rebellion in Starfleet, without alien interference. The bug angle came later when Roddenberry didn't like the idea of renegade Starfleet officers. Which is too bad, because that would have been a much better story.

And then when the bugs got too insecty and weird, they were replaced with the Borg.

Use of Time June 10 2013 06:22 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Nah, his demeanor in the first episode would have given me some red flags about this guy. If he talked to people who outranked him the way we saw in the episode, just imagine how he would treat those he would be placed in charge of. Probably why Picard just stared at him when he made that request to join the Enterprise.

Sran June 10 2013 06:26 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8226523)
He's not supposed to be compromised the first time, because that story had nothing to do with the insecty things. It was supposed to be about a serious rebellion in Starfleet, without alien interference. The bug angle came later when Roddenberry didn't like the idea of renegade Starfleet officers. Which is too bad, because that would have been a much better story.

I suspect that episodes like "The Pegasus" and the entire Section 31 storyline would never have come to fruition had Roddenberry lived long enough to see them. The same is probably true of the Maquis. Each these concepts flew in the face of Roddenberry's Federation utopia.

--Sran

Use of Time June 10 2013 07:47 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
And that is probably a good thing.

Dukhat June 10 2013 08:14 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8227792)
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8226523)
He's not supposed to be compromised the first time, because that story had nothing to do with the insecty things. It was supposed to be about a serious rebellion in Starfleet, without alien interference. The bug angle came later when Roddenberry didn't like the idea of renegade Starfleet officers. Which is too bad, because that would have been a much better story.

I suspect that episodes like "The Pegasus" and the entire Section 31 storyline would never have come to fruition had Roddenberry lived long enough to see them. The same is probably true of the Maquis. Each these concepts flew in the face of Roddenberry's Federation utopia.

--Sran

Even if Roddenberry were still alive today, it wouldn't have mattered. He'd been effectively blackballed since the third season of TNG.

Crazyewok June 10 2013 08:40 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Quote:

Sran wrote: (Post 8227792)

I suspect that episodes like "The Pegasus" and the entire Section 31 storyline would never have come to fruition had Roddenberry lived long enough to see them. The same is probably true of the Maquis. Each these concepts flew in the face of Roddenberry's Federation utopia.

--Sran

And thats why by the time of TNG he was Hack who didnt know a good story if it came up and bit him in the bum.

Mojochi June 10 2013 09:48 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
I do think it's sad. I can see how his initial meeting could have been a hard job to do if he was directed to conduct things as they were conducted, and it's undoubtedly rough how it all ended for him

Certainly there are jobs as an officer that require handling people in ways which don't endear them to you, despite what kind of person you really are at heart. The whole Jellico thing I've been babbling about in the other thread comes to mind too

I kind of do feel the same way about Remmick. He was just doing his job, carrying out his ugly, uncompromising orders. Not every investigator who works at Internals Affairs is a dick, but they all get to wear a dick's uniform

R. Star June 10 2013 11:37 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Remmick may have been a jerk or he may have just been following orders. Either way, getting eaten from the inside out by a giant alien slug thing is a sad fate. Not even counting the head blowing up thing, he had to be dead as a person already.

Sran June 10 2013 11:59 PM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Quote:

Use of Time wrote: (Post 8228212)
And that is probably a good thing.

I don't disagree. The quality of The Next Generation improved significantly once he was pushed into a background role.

Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8228374)
Even if Roddenberry were still alive today, it wouldn't have mattered. He'd been effectively blackballed since the third season of TNG.

Fortunately for us. The Next Generation's first two seasons were mediocre compared to what the series would later become as Gene was pushed aside.

Quote:

Crazyewok wrote: (Post 8228458)
And thats why by the time of TNG he was Hack who didnt know a good story if it came up and bit him in the bum.

To be fair, he was not in good health by the time TNG reached its third year. It's fortunate for everyone that he had no creative control of the series beyond season two.

--Sran

Timo June 11 2013 12:06 AM

Re: Anyone Else Feel Bad for Remmick?
 
Quote:

I kind of do feel the same way about Remmick. He was just doing his job, carrying out his ugly, uncompromising orders. Not every investigator who works at Internals Affairs is a dick, but they all get to wear a dick's uniform
The cute and somewhat Roddenberrian thing about "Coming of Age" is that when Remmick drops the Internal Affairs act and says that he'd consider it a privilege to serve on the Enterprise, it very much looks as if our heroes would actually welcome him there. Sure, Picard at first gives the stereotypical icy silence combined with The Look (TM), but he gets over it, and in the very next sentence says he's not holding the events against Remmick.

Timo Saloniemi


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