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-   -   Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=216205)

Dream June 9 2013 03:26 AM

Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
http://www.avclub.com/articles/star-...r-the-f,98207/

That article makes several good points like how the writers themselves seem to ignore the fact that the ship was lost and on its own after the first few episode, it felt more like a field trip than a ship in a dangerous situation on its own.

Also I think it was a mistake to ditch the ensemble focus half way through the series. TOS always had the big three, but one of my complaints with that series was that rest of the crew was background noise most of the time. It might have worked when that show aired, but modern Trek needed an entire crew. There was no need to keep characters like Harry Kim so underdeveloped just so we could get more Seven of Nine episodes.

teacake June 9 2013 05:21 AM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
Who are those ugly men in your avatar Dream?

Harvey June 9 2013 04:30 PM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
There's already a thread on this: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=214960

King Daniel Into Darkness June 9 2013 06:02 PM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
Deep Space Nine and the TNG movies share equal "blame"

Personally, I couldn't give a shit about ratings or finger pointing. I very much enjoyed Voyager (and to a lesser extent, DS9)

DS9forever June 9 2013 06:34 PM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
DS9 and Voyager cannibalized each others ratings in the US. Here in the UK they did better as Sky broadcast both.

RyuRoots June 9 2013 11:28 PM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
But that's not how you spell "Star Trek: Enterprise"

Seriously, that abomination did more ill for this franchise than Voyager, not that Voyager didn't make some pretty significant contribution to the drain-circling.

JarodRussell June 9 2013 11:37 PM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
The franchise was extremely fine up until Enterprise. Enterprise (or rather "Series V") was highly anticipated. Shit started to go down with every new bit of information about it. Prequel. No Star Trek in the title. Rock song opening. First the promise to make it all different, but then the information that a Klingon shows up in the first minute. And all that shit.

Quote:

DS9forever wrote: (Post 8223211)
DS9 and Voyager cannibalized each others ratings in the US.

DS9 and Voyager are so different from each other that they certainly didn't do that.

Avon June 9 2013 11:39 PM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
up until this thread i assumed voyager was purposefully bad to drive away viewers and now i find out it was an accident. the things you learn here!

Lt. Cheka Wey June 10 2013 12:29 AM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8223097)
Deep Space Nine and the TNG movies share equal "blame"

Personally, I couldn't give a shit about ratings or finger pointing. I very much enjoyed Voyager (and to a lesser extent, DS9)

What was wrong with DS 9?

Best Trek ever.

Relayer1 June 10 2013 12:46 AM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
Quote:

Lt. Cheka Wey wrote: (Post 8224696)
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 8223097)
Deep Space Nine and the TNG movies share equal "blame"

Personally, I couldn't give a shit about ratings or finger pointing. I very much enjoyed Voyager (and to a lesser extent, DS9)

What was wrong with DS 9?

Best Trek ever.

True.

Shatnertage June 10 2013 03:21 AM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
For DS9, I think that its reach was often greater than its grasp.

Voyager was, on balance, a good Trek series, with about the same mix of good/bad episodes as the others.

My criteria of episode quality is usually, "would I watch it again?" I'd peg TOS at around 60%; TNG at 60%; DS9 at 40%; VOY at 50%; and ENT at 55%. Those are just guesses on my part--I haven't gone through the episode lists and done a real calculation. Plus, a lot of it changes based on where I'm at. Now that I'm more settled and with a family, the more family-like Voyager appeals more to me.

IMHO, Voyager does very well compared to DS9. Both had their share of TNG-lite episodes. Voyager, I thought, had stronger acting from the core group, with DS9's secondary and recurring characters stealing the show. Imagine if you could have had Gul Dukat instead of Kullah as Janeway's big season 1 foil. They've both got their share of great episodes and horrible ones. Everyone bangs on about DS9 being episodic, but I feel like that final arc got away from the writers after the episode where O'Brien and Bashir chased the Section 31 guy around his own brain, so that wasn't necessarily a strength.

Why the high score for ENT, by the way? I threw out most of seasons 1&2, and kept in most of 3&4. Had it gone on for another 3 seasons, it's possible that number would be a lot lower.

CorporalCaptain June 10 2013 03:35 AM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
It's hard to take seriously an article whose title says that VOY "accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline", but then within it drops zingers like, "The main reason Voyager fails to make as strong an impression as its counterparts is its bland characters and repetitive stories."

No, if it's due to its own incompetence, there wasn't anything "accidental" about presiding over the franchise's decline at all. What kind of average viewer wants to watch bland characters and repetitive stories?

JirinPanthosa June 10 2013 03:42 AM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
DS9 IMO has the fewest skip episodes out of all Treks. But, if you ignore the first two seasons, TNG does.

But neither show are the sort of show that would ever attract a crossover audience the way TOS and TNG could.

teacake June 10 2013 09:19 AM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
Quote:

Shatnertage wrote: (Post 8225554)
Why the high score for ENT, by the way? I threw out most of seasons 1&2,

Literally?

I like it as foreshadowing. The best foreshadowing is the stuff you shove in their yourself because it wasn't written that way.

Galekarens June 10 2013 09:25 AM

Re: Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline
 
Quote:

JirinPanthosa wrote: (Post 8225635)
DS9 IMO has the fewest skip episodes out of all Treks. But, if you ignore the first two seasons, TNG does.

Well I liked DS9 well enough, but don't care to watch the episodes again (altho I might take another look at season 7, since I don't remember watching that season as closely as the others), but I can watch the Voyager episodes over and over again (well most of them, not all of course) and enjoy.


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