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-   -   Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=216007)

Vulcan Logician June 7 2013 03:15 AM

Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
If so, what episode(s)? And I'm talking Prime Directive here, not Starfleet protocols or principles.

R. Star June 7 2013 03:30 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Responded to your same question on the Janeway thread :)

Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8213980)
Quote:

Vulcan Logician wrote: (Post 8213881)

PS: I am trying to remember if Sisko broke the directive at any point. Maybe he didn't. Anyone?

Well in Captive Pursuit, he turned a blind eye to O'brien letting Tosk escape all while paying lip service to non-interference.

Would masquerading as Gabriel Bell during the Bell Riots count?

Working with Garak to plant false evidence about a Dominion invasion of Romulus would count. So well telling Worf to "do whatever it takes" to solve the problem about Gowron going insane.

Heck... allowing a whole culture to worship him as a religious icon would count as interfering in Internal Affairs of a world.


-Brett- June 7 2013 03:34 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
I think the Prime Directive means something different every time it's mentioned. So probably.

R. Star June 7 2013 03:38 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Quote:

-Brett- wrote: (Post 8214007)
I think the Prime Directive means something different every time it's mentioned. So probably.

Voyager even came out in one episode saying it had 47 subsections... basically I've always taken it as don't interfere with non-warp capable races... and don't interfere with anyone's internal affairs.

C.E. Evans June 7 2013 03:52 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
I think sneezing counts as a Prime Directive violation in some cases. So pretty much everyone in Trek who goes to another planet has probably violated it in some way.

I think in the basic sense of the Prime Directive (interference in the development of a pre-warp society), though, Sisko hasn't. But in the broader sense of the Prime Directive (involvement with other civilizations period), Starfleet violates the Prime Directive every time it contacts and interacts with other non-Federation races (such as the Bajorans).

JirinPanthosa June 7 2013 04:23 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
The whole Prophet thing wasn't a violation because at the beginning he discouraged it, and he didn't do anything to encourage it until later on when Bajor was effectively an ally of the Federation.

The Tosk thing is not a violation because it was the other culture who chose to come onto their station, not the other way around. Also you could argue it was a form of asylum.

The whole ITPM thing was an ethical violation, arguably a justified one, but not a violation of the prime directive. The Dominion War was not an internal Romulan matter. The Romulans were already involved in the war. They involved themselves in The Die Is Cast and even showed up to defend the station once before when they thought the Dominion was invading. That situation was strictly an 'ends justify the means' question.

R. Star June 7 2013 04:31 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Of course sneezing is a violation of the Prime Directive. You're contaminating their ecosystem with your alien germs! :p

To the Emissary role... yes you said it yourself he discouraged it... at first. Later he didn't and fully embraced it. That's text book interference.

The Tosk incident wasn't a violation because he let him on the station. It was interference when Sisko underhandedly help O'brien break Tosk out so the Hunters wouldn't get him.

ITPM was textbook internal interference. It doesn't matter that they had prior conflicts with the Dominion, they weren't a part of the war at that point, and Sisko and Garak underhandedly manipulated the Romulan political system to force the Romulan Star Empire to enter the war. Garak took it a step further but that was what Sisko was setting out to do from the teaser of that episode. If that's not internal interference, what is?

Vulcan Logician June 7 2013 04:37 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Yeah, I think the broad definition of total non-interference with non-warp cultures and non-interference in internal affairs of separate cultures succinctly encapsulates the definition offered us by the cannon.
In reply to R. Star:
1) Don't remember Captive Pursuit off-hand, but thanks for giving me an excuse to re-watch a DS9 episode
2) Sticky issue there. Was Gabriel Bell ever Gabriel Bell? Probably so, because Sisko would have seen himself as Mr. Bell having studied him in the Academy. So maybe there.
3) Someone pointed out that Pale Moonlight, while certainly a deviation from Federation ethics, is not a violation of the Prime Directive.
4) Yeah I guess, accepting the role as Emissary while still remaining affiliated with Starfleet might count. But he is the Sisko. So we have to allow him this.

R. Star June 7 2013 04:46 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Hey, every Starfleet captain has broken the PD at some point. Personally it makes me mad when they quote the PD as a justification to let some ecological disaster kill an entire people. Just because I'm listing violations doesn't mean I think they're not justifiable.

1) As far as season 1 eps go, Captive Pursuit is pretty good. Interesting dilemma and culture.
2) Bell... well technically he is interfering with Earth's past, even if he's trying to restore it. I did love the follow up in Little Green Men when Nog comments on Bell looking like Sisko and Quark going "all hew-mons look alike."
3) ITPM is a violation undoubtedly. Justifiable? Sure. He did get approval after all. As for Worf killing Gowron... this is from Tacking Into the Wind:

Quote:

SISKO Something has to be done.
WORF I agree. And I have a solution. But it will not be easy.
SISKO Do whatever it takes, Worf. Those Klingon ships out there are the only thing between us and the Breen. Gowron's risking the safety of the entire Alpha Quadrant and it has to stop.
WORF Understood.
Next scene he's in Worf kills the Klingon Head of Government. :p

4) Starfleet never did like Sisko doing this, but put up with it probably because it'd make the Bajorans mad.

Vulcan Logician June 7 2013 05:39 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Worf killing Gowron (while awesome in every way) could not possibly represent a violation of the Directive. He killed Gowron as a Klingon, not a Starfleet officer. I think it is safe to say, though, that Sisko has violated the Prime Directive at least once.

R. Star June 7 2013 09:13 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Sisko told Worf to... do whatever it takes. Come on... what do you expect him to do? Previously both Picard -and- Sisko had reprimanded Worf for putting his Klingon culture over his behavior as a Starfleet officer... so you can't have it both ways. If Sisko can reprimand Worf for trying to kill his brother at his own request... he can't go back on that and say oh.. well do your Klingon thing now and kill Gowron. Not without being hypocritical anyways... but hey, war brings out the worst in people.

AllStarEntprise June 7 2013 09:21 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8214886)
Sisko told Worf to... do whatever it takes. Come on... what do you expect him to do? Previously both Picard -and- Sisko had reprimanded Worf for putting his Klingon culture over his behavior as a Starfleet officer... so you can't have it both ways. If Sisko can reprimand Worf for trying to kill his brother at his own request... he can't go back on that and say oh.. well do your Klingon thing now and kill Gowron. Not without being hypocritical anyways... but hey, war brings out the worst in people.

I always hated how Sisko reacted and reprimanded Worf for his attempt to kill Kurn in that ritual suicide. Sisko: Mr. Religious Tolerance for the religiously intolerant Bajorans, has a problem with other people expressing their faith. Hypocrite. Riker was willing to kill Worf when Worf thought he would be paralyzed for life. Riker was conflicted about it but they were friends so he would honor his friend's last right.

The Gowron thing just kind of happened and Sisko probably didn't intend for Worf to kill him. Hell had Worf embraced the role as ruler of the empire. Sisko would've really been thrown for a loop.

R. Star June 7 2013 09:31 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Quote:

AllStarEntprise wrote: (Post 8214925)
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8214886)
Sisko told Worf to... do whatever it takes. Come on... what do you expect him to do? Previously both Picard -and- Sisko had reprimanded Worf for putting his Klingon culture over his behavior as a Starfleet officer... so you can't have it both ways. If Sisko can reprimand Worf for trying to kill his brother at his own request... he can't go back on that and say oh.. well do your Klingon thing now and kill Gowron. Not without being hypocritical anyways... but hey, war brings out the worst in people.

I always hated how Sisko reacted and reprimanded Worf for his attempt to kill Kurn in that ritual suicide. Sisko: Mr. Religious Tolerance for the religiously intolerant Bajorans, has a problem with other people expressing their faith. Hypocrite. Riker was willing to kill Worf when Worf thought he would be paralyzed for life. Riker was conflicted about it but they were friends so he would honor his friend's last right.

The Gowron thing just kind of happened and Sisko probably didn't intend for Worf to kill him. Hell had Worf embraced the role as ruler of the empire. Sisko would've really been thrown for a loop.

Sisko probably didn't expect it.. but he really should have. It's not like Worf didn't have this kind of thing on his track record previously. He killed Duras(which Picard reprimanded him for) when he was a candidate for leadership of the Empire. What else did he expect Worf, the Klingon's Klingon, to do with an open ended order like "do whatever it takes?" :p

Though yeah, it would be funny to have Worf in full Chancellor's regalia walk into Sisko's office and tender his resignation. ;)

T'Girl June 7 2013 10:03 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Quote:

Vulcan Logician wrote: (Post 8214244)
2) Sticky issue there. Was Gabriel Bell ever Gabriel Bell? Probably so, because Sisko would have seen himself as Mr. Bell having studied him in the Academy. So maybe there.

The case could be made there that Sisko was "interfering" with his own culture and history, and therefor would not be considered a prime directive violation.

If he were to have done the same thing on a non-Human planet, there it would be a violation.

The same with Spock in Yesteryear, no violation.

:)

AllStarEntprise June 7 2013 10:16 AM

Re: Did Sisko ever break the Prime Directive?
 
Yesteryear is a predestination paradox. Although the mechanics are shakey because NO ONE not even Kirk should've remembered him. But alas where not meant to scrutinize that episode as much as we do others.


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