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-   -   John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER) (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=215641)

The Wormhole June 3 2013 11:58 PM

John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Been thinking, with all said and done and the supposed renegade Starfleet officer John Harrison revealed to be Khan, I've come to realize, I was more interested in the fiction of the John Harrison persona than I am in Khan. Khan's been done, and while STID didn't retread Space Seed or TWOK with what they did with Khan, doing something completely new doesn't hurt either. In all honesty, I believe the movie could have been improved had the villain actually been Commander John Harrison, renegade Starfleet officer turned terrorist fighting for ideology instead of Khan taking revenge out on an Evil Admiral.

And the movie wouldn't have to be changed that much. Harrison could still rip the transwarp beaming to go to Qo'nos. If they made his backstory some sort of Starfleet special ops badass that could explain how he'd last against the Klingons, and from there you can still have Evil Admiral Marcus wanting Harrison out of the way and making it personal. Kirk still decides to work with Harrison board Vengeance, Harrison still betrays Kirk and kills Marcus. No magic blood means Kirk couldn't die and therefore That Scene wouldn't have happened (I'm fine with that). It is kind of unlikely a regular human could have survived Vengeance's crash, just say Harrison somehow managed to transwarp beam out, so he's still out there, just not an immediate threat, which is basically the same situation we have with Khan.

Hell, all making the character Khan did was possibly make thing marketable, but then Khan was a secret so the movie didn't really captilize on that marketing potential, and even now the cat's out of the bag it isn't exactly bringing in money hand over fist.

So what does everyone else think? Would John Harrison be more interesting than Khan?

BillJ June 4 2013 12:04 AM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
I wouldn't have been against him being John Harrison or anothet Augment simply because I don't think they did a very good job distinguishing Cumberbatch as Khan.

There was nothing in the film that just screamed this needs to be Khan, besides Spocks scream.

Though I still love the film.

The Wormhole June 4 2013 12:27 AM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8198674)
There was nothing in the film that just screamed this needs to be Khan, besides Spocks scream.

Pretty much. Hell, Orci even said the creative process was to create a new character and then that character was named Khan. Should have stuck with the new character.

BillJ June 4 2013 12:35 AM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
It does feel like somewhere in the process they went from Harrison to the Khan/Harrison villain. Maybe as late as shooting the film.

I think the Harrison facade could have been done away with completely and wouldn't have changed the movie much, as well.

CorporalClegg June 4 2013 12:45 AM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Khan beats John Doe Harrison in every shape or form. But I agree they should have just dropped the whole plot-twist angle. It wasn't a plot-twist. It was obvious over a year a head of time to anyone paying attention, and it added nothing to the movie.

If they would just gone Khan from the get go, I think everything would've been better for it. They could have honed Cumby's look a bit more, for one thing. But the big thing is it would have added badly needed publicity. The entire ad campaign (poster, trailers, commercials) would have all been changed for the better IMO.

Admiral Buzzkill June 4 2013 03:26 AM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
If this movie had been "nameless assistant villain gets used by evil Admiral to start a war" I'd have been bored.

BillJ June 4 2013 03:36 AM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: (Post 8199511)
If this movie had been "nameless assistant villain gets used by evil Admiral to start a war" I'd have been bored.

I don't know. I think it would've depended on what type of background they built for the character. I definitely think that being either Harrison or Khan would've cleared up some of the problems that came from them using both. It felt muddled.

Plus, I think Cumberbatch could've made John Harrison an interesting character.

The Wormhole June 4 2013 02:03 PM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: (Post 8199511)
If this movie had been "nameless assistant villain gets used by evil Admiral to start a war" I'd have been bored.

It would have been the same damn movie, pretty much. Is the name Khan really the only thing that kept your interest?

newtontomato539 June 4 2013 02:04 PM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Nope.

John Harrison IS Khan Noonien Singh.

The movie is making money hand over fist.

There is going to be a 3rd and 4th movie.

Bad Robot Star Trek Lives! :techman:

The Wormhole June 4 2013 02:06 PM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

newtontomato539 wrote: (Post 8201008)
The movie is making money hand over fist.

It's getting pwned at the box office by The Fast and the Furious. The Fast and the Furious. I think we have different definitions of "making money hand over fist."

The Stig June 4 2013 04:10 PM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 8201011)
Quote:

newtontomato539 wrote: (Post 8201008)
The movie is making money hand over fist.

It's getting pwned at the box office by The Fast and the Furious. The Fast and the Furious. I think we have different definitions of "making money hand over fist."

Cripes. No one expected STID to gross more than Fast and Furious. At this rate, STID is on track to outpace the gross of Trek 09 by 50-90 million dollars. It will be the highest-grossing Trek feature ever made.

It's doing just fine. The next film will absolutely crush overseas.

LobsterAfternoon June 4 2013 04:16 PM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
I'd suggest putting aside whether it would've made more or less money with Khan present or absent. That's impossible to determine. Do I think it would've been a better creative choice to not have Cumberbatch be Khan? Yes. I'd prefer that he be a different augment, one who was woken by factors in the new timeline instead of Khan.

Cyke101 June 4 2013 04:45 PM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
^Over on Oh No They Didn't, more than a few of their contributors have toyed with the idea that Cumberbatch should have been Joachim masquerading as Khan to throw off authorities. It would further add to the idea that Harrison can't be figured out and that Khan is again one step ahead. Indeed, Cumberbatch has a slight resemblance to Judson Scott.

Of course, that's Monday morning quarterbacking, and Joachim never did anything *nearly* as impressive as Cumberbatch's Khan in TWOK.

LobsterAfternoon June 4 2013 10:10 PM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Ooooooh, I like that quite a bit.

Squiggy June 4 2013 10:17 PM

Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 8201011)
Quote:

newtontomato539 wrote: (Post 8201008)
The movie is making money hand over fist.

It's getting pwned at the box office by The Fast and the Furious. The Fast and the Furious. I think we have different definitions of "making money hand over fist."

Do some damned research and you'll see that the F&F franchise always makes tons of cash.


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