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Greenağaš May 25 2013 09:26 AM

Romulan origin question
 
It seems widely accepted that the Romulans are decended from opponents of Surak and his teachings and that they left vulcan during the Time of Awakening but I can't remember this actually being out right stated in any episode.

Is this just some form of fanon or have I missed an important reference some where.

Since the Vulcans were building temples like P'Jem on other worlds as early as 3,000 years before the time of Enterprise is it possible that Romulus was just an Vulcan colony that lost contact with the homeworld during the awakening?

SiddFinch1 May 25 2013 02:49 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
I don't think it is ever stated outright. I believe it is just in books and inferred that they are descended from Vulcan's who left.

Count Zero May 25 2013 02:56 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Though it isn't spelled out exactly, Surak kind of told Archer this when he carried his katra in the Vulcan arc in Enterprise (probably in the episode "Awakening"). They look out on a landscape devastated by nuclear war and Surak tells him that those who rejected his teachings violently were "marching under raptor's wings" which is a reference to the symbol the Romulans still use as their national symbol.

Also, in TOS (in "Balance of Terror") Spock theorises that the Romulans are an off-shoot of the Vulcans that left because they rejected logic. This had been just a myth to him until he saw the face of the Romulan commander.

Ethros May 25 2013 06:55 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Been ages since I watched it, but isn't it discussed in TNG's Gambit as well?

Metryq May 25 2013 07:27 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
The Preservers from "Paradise Syndrome" are to blame. They had moved a colony of primitive Vulcans to a new planet when someone finally realized they had gotten the home address wrong. "Not these violent ruffians! That other planet over there!"

Third Nacelle May 25 2013 09:18 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
It makes me wonder exactly how long Vulcans have been a spacefareing species, if an offshoot of them on another planet had time to develop into another species. They should be all over the galaxy by now.

xvicente May 25 2013 09:36 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Perhaps the Romulans have a founder who can be described as "like Khan, but his plan worked"

The Wormhole May 25 2013 09:51 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
According to Enterprise, the Vulcans who opposed Surak were known as "those who marched beneath the Raptor's wings." The implication being they do become Romulans. Also, Voyager's Death Wish has Q accusing the renegade Q known as Quinn of starting the 100 year war that resulted in the split between Vulcans and Romulans in one of his failed suicide attempts.

The idea of the Romulans being the descendants of Surak's opponents is by no means fanon at all. Maybe it's missing that One Direct Reference, but there's no real reason to assume it isn't so either.

MacLeod May 25 2013 09:55 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Quote:

Third Nacelle wrote: (Post 8152693)
It makes me wonder exactly how long Vulcans have been a spacefareing species, if an offshoot of them on another planet had time to develop into another species. They should be all over the galaxy by now.

but a technology could in theroy be lost/rejected etc.. Only to be re-discovered.

Ethros May 25 2013 10:05 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Quote:

Third Nacelle wrote: (Post 8152693)
It makes me wonder exactly how long Vulcans have been a spacefareing species, if an offshoot of them on another planet had time to develop into another species. They should be all over the galaxy by now.

Didn't ENT establish the Vulcan's weren't overly huge on exploring? Certainly compared to humans

The Wormhole May 25 2013 10:10 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Quote:

Ethros wrote: (Post 8152918)
Quote:

Third Nacelle wrote: (Post 8152693)
It makes me wonder exactly how long Vulcans have been a spacefareing species, if an offshoot of them on another planet had time to develop into another species. They should be all over the galaxy by now.

Didn't ENT establish the Vulcan's weren't overly huge on exploring? Certainly compared to humans

Throughout the early years that is the stated philosopy among Vulcans, though the season 4 arc consisting of The Forge, Awakening, and Kir'shara kind of debunks this. Particularly, in The Forge, Syrran tells Archer the Vulcan High Command originally started off as Vulcan's space exploration service before taking over the government. Archer comments that he heard Vulcans weren't into space exploration and Syrran says "I'm sure you've been told many things which aren't true about Vulcans."

Nerys Myk May 25 2013 10:20 PM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Quote:

Third Nacelle wrote: (Post 8152693)
It makes me wonder exactly how long Vulcans have been a spacefareing species, if an offshoot of them on another planet had time to develop into another species. They should be all over the galaxy by now.

Romulans aren't a separate species. Their differences with the Vulcans are mainly cultural.

Surak lived in the 4th Century and the Vulcans seem to have been a space faring, advanced culture at that time. Though the wars of that period probably caused a "Dark Age" where much advancement was lost and many things had to be rediscovered afterwards. My assumption is that contact with most of Vulcan's colonies was lost at this time and those worlds evolved into different cultures.

JirinPanthosa May 26 2013 04:49 AM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
It's never stated outright how long ago Vulcans diverged genetically from Romulans.

It's interesting to say they are the same species. Technically most of the races in the galaxy are the same species, because the scientific definition of a species is a group of organisms who can produce fertile offspring. So by the scientific definition, humans and klingons are the same species, as are most of the humanoid races in the galaxy.

Vulcans and Romulans probably diverged more recently than some races of humans on earth, say a few thousand years ago, so they probably are the same species even though they're always referred to as different species.

And I suppose if Simon Tarses could fool all the blood tests, that confirms that they are biologically indistinguishable.

Lt. Uhura-Brown May 26 2013 04:53 AM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Wasn't there a species in TNG that were specifically referred to as being proto-Vulcan?

Perhaps Romulans are just another Vulcanoid species.

Nerys Myk May 26 2013 04:56 AM

Re: Romulan origin question
 
Quote:

Lt. Uhura-Brown wrote: (Post 8154709)
Wasn't there a species in TNG that were specifically referred to as being proto-Vulcan?

Perhaps Romulans are just another Vulcanoid species.

The Mintakans. There is also a Vulcanoid race in the Rigel system.


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