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-   -   Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER) (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=214081)

Shatnertage May 22 2013 08:27 PM

Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Something I was wondering about when I saw the movie...why do you think Spock melded with Pike as he (Pike) was mortally wounded?

I wasn't sure if it was just scientific curiosity or genuine empathy. In other words, did he meld because he wanted to feel what Pike was feeling to increase his knowledge of humans (and maybe, on a personal note, to know what his mother felt as she fell to her death) or did he do it because his emotional center would help Pike better face his last moments of life?

I'm really not sure. I could definitely see early season 1 TOS Spock doing it just to "gather data," and we know that NuSpock is interested enough in testing how people face adversity that he designed the Kobayashi Maru test. Wouldn't he want to know how one of Starfleet's most courageous admirals faced death? On the other hand, if we want a Spock that we can relate to, the second explanation seems safest.

And, while we're on the subject, isn't it kind of a no-no to do a meld with someone who doesn't give their consent?

Just curious what perspective others have on this/

Awesome Possum May 22 2013 08:36 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
I think it was a little bit of both wanting to comfort Pike and wanting to know what death felt like. The early part of the movie seemed to show that he was way too willing to allow himself to die. The meld seemed to drive him away from it based on what he felt in Pike.

King Daniel Into Darkness May 22 2013 08:43 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Comforting Pike, and also having lost so much himself, I think he was curious if there was anything beyond.

Norsehound May 22 2013 08:45 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Comfort, but my initial thought on that scene was if Pike had any Important Dying Messages to pass on. I was kind of expecting some kind of revelation from Spock, referencing that scene, that might have comforted Kirk later (His greatest disappointment captain was not seeing you become the captain you were meant to be).

Shatnertage May 22 2013 10:09 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Good points. I hadn't considered the "getting a last message from Pike" angle.

Franklin May 22 2013 10:13 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Since transference is part of the mind meld, it was probably both comforting Pike and experiencing what he was going through. While the former is a more noble reason for doing it than the latter, Spock's curiosity with death may have been more of a motivator than he'd care to admit.

It also contrasts with him being unable to comfort Kirk in his dying moments. Spock can only sit there and listen to Kirk tell him he's scared as he suffers.

Gsam May 22 2013 10:20 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
My thoughts on the matter are pretty similar with everything posted here up to this point. The one rather unsettling thought I had in addition to these is that perhaps Pike was scared further by Spock's intrusion...perhaps it reminded him of the whole Nero/Narada event and that surely would not bring the man any comfort.

The look on Pike's face as he passed looked blank..except for the tear rolling down his cheek...I hope this is not because he was terrified with the reminder of Nero and the slug etc.

I found this portion of the movie to be extremely upsetting and could do without ever seeing it again. I would so much have preferred that a message was passed along to Kirk..but I guess it just wasn't meant to be.

BeatleJWOL May 23 2013 04:31 AM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Definitely got the comforting vibe; Spock probably felt he could ease Pike's pain. The look he got on his face pretty immediately afterwards indicated he was not at all prepared for the flow in the opposite direction.

tippy May 23 2013 05:26 AM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Why did he try and mind meld with Khan?

Dream May 23 2013 05:37 AM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

tippy wrote: (Post 8139067)
Why did he try and mind meld with Khan?

He was probably trying to disable Khan with a telepathic attack.

Shilliam Watner May 23 2013 07:34 AM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 8139121)
Quote:

tippy wrote: (Post 8139067)
Why did he try and mind meld with Khan?

He was probably trying to disable Khan with a telepathic attack.

My thoughts exactly.

BeatleJWOL May 23 2013 10:30 AM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
It appears to work somewhat well, too. Just a little confusion there on the edge of the platform.

King Daniel Into Darkness May 23 2013 12:25 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
I loved the mind meld during the fight with Khan. It was while he had Spock in his skull-crushing finisher, and Spock transfers to him all the physical and emotional pain and termoil he's feeling - and Khan screams and lets go. It was a Vulcan fighting dirty. Brilliant!

Admiral Buzzkill May 23 2013 02:15 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
That was a mind meld? Hmm. I just thought that Spock could squeeze harder than Khan.

CorporalCaptain May 23 2013 02:22 PM

Re: Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)
 
Quote:

King Daniel into Darkness wrote: (Post 8140135)
I loved the mind meld during the fight with Khan. It was while he had Spock in his skull-crushing finisher, and Spock transfers to him all the physical and emotional pain and termoil he's feeling - and Khan screams and lets go. It was a Vulcan fighting dirty. Brilliant!

A try at the Vulcan Death Grip? :shifty: ;)


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