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AdmiralScreed May 21 2013 04:51 AM

Fun Personalities
 
Some of you will remember me from the Does It Get Better??? thread I started a ways back. Those of you who followed that thread know that I came to Voyager after first watching TNG and then DS9 in their entirety. I had a lot of criticisms of Voyager, but I was fair and gave it praise when I believed it had earned it.

I am now returning to TNG and rewatching it as each season is released to blu ray. I am midway through season 3 right now. What I have noticed after rewatching these seasons several years later is......

The cast isn't as fun as I remember.

I remembered the cast of this show as being exciting and full of energy. It's not that I no longer think they are, but it's as if something is holding them back. Where are the larger than life personalities that I remember? So far the only characters I've really loved are Pulaski and Worf.....and they got rid of Pulaski........I'm just not feeling it like I did before.

Anyway....what does this have to do with Voyager? Well, Voyager and TNG are most similar in structure with the alien of the week spaceship format. Returning to TNG after completing VOY, I've gotta say that I miss the fun personalities of the VOY crew. Sure the writing got a little repetitive. I will say that TNG was more cerebral and the narratives were usually fresher. But TNG's cast just doesn't seem as energetic as I remember. I can't figure out what's changed.

Guess who's tempted to rewatch the first season of VOY just for comparisons to TNG......

JirinPanthosa May 21 2013 05:26 AM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
It's true TNG's cast isn't as fun. TNG's main draw is the writing of individual episodes and the strength of the lead performances.

Voyager's cast is more fun but also more gimmick-driven.

teacake May 21 2013 06:05 AM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Admiral Screed that's my main complaint about TNG and my main praise of Voyager. Voyager is a lot of fun and colorful, it's a romp. TNG is not a romp. Now some don't care for romps in their science fiction and that's fine.. for me I've watched and own all the series multiple times but Voyager is my crack candy.

It's also the most humorous Trek and I think TNG is the least humorous. TNG has little jests based on interactions (Data, Worf vs Humans) from time to time but that's about it. Voyager has the EMH's comic interchanges with everyone, Janeway's dry comments.. lots of wackiness. DS9 has the Ferengi and a lot of verbal sparring from Odo, Garak, Bashir. I do think Voyager takes itself the least seriously of all the Treks and it shows, there's quite a bit of fun in a lot of it.

Fun isn't a word I think of with TNG. I think it wanted to be science fiction and that's what it did.

Captain Kathryn May 21 2013 04:04 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
I haven't seen the entirety of all the series, but I've seen most of TNG, all of DS9 recently and all of VOY a while ago. Voyager remains to be the most funny and humorous for me. It's the reason I find it so re-watchable compared to others.

R. Star May 21 2013 10:53 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Well a lot of the time Trek's attempts at humor are just facepalming to me. TNG(for the most part) tried to stay away from that, while DS9 pretty much just crammed most of their silliness into the Ferengi, which was pretty hit and miss but didn't carry the show. Voyager had a higher frequency of "silly" episodes among the main cast, but yeah... they didn't seem to take themselves seriously teacake. Why should I? :p

And yes, that's another reason I think Janeway's real bipolar... one week she's cracking witty remarks for humor... the next week she's going bonkers and torturing a member of Starfleet.

My favorite laugh out loud moment in Trek history is Damar's quip to Weyoun's latest clone... "Maybe you should talk to Worf again!"

teacake May 21 2013 10:56 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8131402)

And yes, that's another reason I think Janeway's real bipolar... one week she's cracking witty remarks for humor... the next week she's going bonkers and torturing a member of Starfleet.

That's why I relate so well to her.
Quote:

My favorite laugh out loud moment in Trek history is Damar's quip to Weyoun's latest clone... "Maybe you should talk to Worf again!"
And how much it amuses him when he says it :lol:

DS9 had the advantage of so many non-humans in the cast, no pressure to make them evolved above such things. More natural writing.

King Daniel Into Darkness May 28 2013 10:58 AM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 8127232)
Admiral Screed that's my main complaint about TNG and my main praise of Voyager. Voyager is a lot of fun and colorful, it's a romp. TNG is not a romp. Now some don't care for romps in their science fiction and that's fine.. for me I've watched and own all the series multiple times but Voyager is my crack candy.

It's also the most humorous Trek and I think TNG is the least humorous. TNG has little jests based on interactions (Data, Worf vs Humans) from time to time but that's about it. Voyager has the EMH's comic interchanges with everyone, Janeway's dry comments.. lots of wackiness. DS9 has the Ferengi and a lot of verbal sparring from Odo, Garak, Bashir. I do think Voyager takes itself the least seriously of all the Treks and it shows, there's quite a bit of fun in a lot of it.

Fun isn't a word I think of with TNG. I think it wanted to be science fiction and that's what it did.

Wot teh teacake sed.

Although I suggest TNG failed to be science fiction. It was pretentious twaddle. I loved it at the time, but growing up and rewatching it has changed my opinion somewhat. By somewhat I mean completely.

eskyliz May 30 2013 03:00 AM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Tuvok, I understand.
You are a Vulcan man.
You have just gone without, for seven years... about
Paris, please find away to load a hypo-spray.
I will give you the sign.
Just aim for his behind.
Hormones are raging, synapses blazing.
It's all so verrrrryy illogical.

Ah sorry. That had to happen :p That's when the Doctor sings his song in his daydream to Tuvok. That gets me laughing every time I watch it! And of course I had to learn it for myself. :lol:

But that's just one of the many reasons I like VOY. It definitely is quite humorous and I think the Doctor had a huge part in that. The writers did a great job with him and Robert Picardo played the part perfectly.

AdmiralScreed May 30 2013 09:57 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
I just finished my rewatch of TNG season 3, and things really changed at about the halfway point of the season. I think the writers are finally figuring out how to write these characters. The dialogue and the humor has become more nuanced, and the characters are becoming more complex. I am now starting to remember why I loved TNG so much when I first watched it! :)

JanewayRulz! May 31 2013 02:38 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
I watched TNG when it first aired... and it took me about a third of the way through season 2 to fall in love with it. Picard became (for me) the sexiest bald man on TV and each year his stature grew. :drool:

As much as I loved it, loved Rker's beard, loved Troi and her unbelievable mother, loved the evolution of Worf and his hair (Mulgrew should have caught a clue from just watching Michael Dorn over the years), loved the enigmatic Guinan and the cerebral Crusher... the very last scene of the last episode fell flat for me. It just wasn't "right" for Picard to sit down with his crew and play cards. I realized then... after 7 years this crew wasn't the family that I felt our core group in TOS were after 3 seasons. That saddened/angered me. :brickwall:

And THAT was what grabbed me in the FIRST season of Voyager. :bolian:

How well this crew came together despite their differences (Torres & Kim's pet names "Maquis" & "Star Fleet" were ressurected in season 6's "Muse" and I LOVED it!), how easily this crew came to love & depend upon each other. And how often they could bust on each other's chops. (Chakotay in the holodeck with Tuvok in Heroes and Demons comes immediately to mind. :guffaw: )

As much as I loved TNG... I have yet to purchase it on DVD and never completed the buy on VHS. But Not only have I bought 2 season of Voy on VHS, I rebought all 7 on dvd (twice) for myself and a family friend. I love Voy and its personalities that much. :p

LOKAI of CHERON June 1 2013 02:57 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Really interesting thread. Cards on the table - I love all Star Trek with a passion, but if I were forced to choose, I'd have very little hesitation in taking TOS as my beloved favourite. However, VOY (and its characters) is my number two incarnation of Trek - pretty much for the reasons described by previous posters. The characters just seem more colourful, more fleshed out, and just much more darn fun than TNG's, which they are seemingly often compared to.

I have no problem with Janeway's so called "mood swings" or even bipolar characterisation, in fact, it makes her more human, and dare I say it, more "realistic" than some of Trek's one beat, "mono-personalities".

The Overlord June 1 2013 04:10 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Fun is retaliative, what one person finds fun another many not.

I think the TNG crew has a better dynamic, because in general they are pretty developed then the Voyager crew.

I find it hard to see Harry Kim and Chakotay as fun characters when they are generally about as interesting as dry wall and its hard to find Neelix a fun character when he is extremely annoying 80% of the time. There some characters who don't seem fun because they don't seem to be anything but one dimensional.

Ryva Brall June 1 2013 04:12 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
As far as actual character development goes, I'd have to say DS9 wins in a landslide. That show did more to flesh out its characters than any other Trek series. However, Voyager does have an insanely fun cast. There are a few boring characters, like Chakotay and Kes and Kim. Although maybe they were just boring because they were never given much development. In any event, the Doctor easily had enough personality for several characters. :lol:

Also, anyone who says Seven doesn't have a personality is clearly not paying attention. :p

I do wish that Voyager had had more recurring characters. That was one of DS9's greatest strengths. But other than a few bland background characters, like Ayala and Samantha Wildman, there's really just the main cast. The writers had a crew of 140 or so people to work with. They could have done so much more.

AdmiralScreed June 1 2013 11:03 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Quote:

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: (Post 8185384)
The characters just seem more colourful, more fleshed out, and just much more darn fun than TNG's, which they are seemingly often compared to.

I would agree the VOY characters were more colorful, but I don't think I'd go as far to say they were more fleshed out. TNG wins that one hands down, IMO. I thought the TNG characters were deeper, better developed, and all around better representations of explorers on a starship in the 24th century. The VOY characters may have been sillier and fun in a more obvious way (which I think can have a lot of appeal), but I think the TNG characters were more multi-dimensional and better written overall.

EDIT: That said, VOY did some really well developed characters too, mainly Seven and the Doctor.

LOKAI of CHERON June 1 2013 11:15 PM

Re: Fun Personalities
 
Quote:

AdmiralScreed wrote: (Post 8187451)
The VOY characters may have been sillier...

I can't agree with this, AdmiralScreed. I certainly feel the fun, levity and humour sometimes exhibited by the characters, but silly definitely isn't a word I'd use. But, I guess we each have our own perceptions - it's all good!


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