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Johnny May 17 2013 10:45 PM

Generations was...
 
...one of the best scored Star Trek films in it's history, musically it has produced some of the most memorable motifs.

IMO it was written with a feeling of history to it, looking back over the many years of TNG and their friendships. Something that I think was lost when the ent-e came around.

Also, since there's a box to fill, I think it was one of the best shot as well, everything from the depth of colour on the bridge to the flood yellow of ten forward.

For me it was the film that made space feel big again, that there was a lot going on, and that space-action doesn't have to be the thing that pushes along the story. Picards personal loss had so much depth to it.

Would love to hear thoughts on it?

Noname Given May 18 2013 12:37 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
...honestly. a BADLY written/scripted film. They had a couple two parters ("Best of Both Worlds" and "All Good Things") that would have made a WAY better film.

Dream May 18 2013 12:51 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
The problem with Generations was the death of Kirk and the E-D was badly done and pissed off too many people.

They should have gone with more of a crowd pleaser story like BOBW or AGT.

R. Star May 18 2013 01:44 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
The soundtrack was good... that's really the best I can say about it.

It's a movie with so many plot holes you can pilot a Death Star through them without being noticed, and Kirk's death is so disappointing and well... pointless. They should've just made a movie about TNG instead of trying to do a crossover.

marksound May 18 2013 02:35 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
Generations is a Star Trek Movie. It has all the elements of Star Trek. The ship, the crew, special effects, etc. etc. etc.

Star Trek is like pizza. When it's good, it's really good. When it's bad, it's still pretty good. :lol:

I don't really notice movie soundtracks. Funny, as a musician you'd think I'd hone in on that. But not so much.

Johnny May 18 2013 03:17 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
Quote:

Noname Given wrote: (Post 8106244)
...honestly. a BADLY written/scripted film. They had a couple two parters ("Best of Both Worlds" and "All Good Things") that would have made a WAY better film.

I don't think best of both worlds was that good TBH, BLASTPHEMY! Too 1-dimensional in it's story structure. You just knew every had to get out alive in the end. The only part of All Good Things was Data's future hair and the poke scene. :p

Generations is the only film that had the guts to change the status-quo. I think what it boils down to was that it's a film that showed how people actually live in that time, whether it was the klingon sisters wanting revenge, data pining for LaForge, or Picards family turmoil while trying to captain a ship, Sauron trying to get back to the nexus. It was all personal to each character, I genuinely felt for them.

I feels like every star trek film since has had a requirement of a baddie that wants to, at least by the end, only destroy the Enterprise. What...? An enemy that doesn't want to destroy the Enterprise... can such a thing exist?! :D

There's more character development in Generations tis why I like it.

R. Star May 18 2013 03:22 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
It's Soran... though Picard getting his butt kicked in 10 seconds by Sauron is far less embarrassing! ;) Soran was an interesting villain in the fact you could almost sympathize with him, but he's tied to the plot element of the Nexus which is just... lame at best. Why didn't Picard just say.. I want to leave and go back to the Enterprise when I'm talking to Soran in Ten Foward? Then call in Worf and arrest him. The end, Kirk lives, Enteprise lives and no stars get destroyed.

Hey, if you enjoy it, more power to you and you're entitled to it. You did ask opinions though! I voted it middle of the pack among the Trek movies as it wasn't facepalmingly bad to me like say Nemesis, 09, or Insurrection.

It's the second best of the TNG movies to me... but considering the bar the last two set, that's not really saying much!

Lance May 18 2013 04:07 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
Quote:

Carcazoid wrote: (Post 8106994)
Star Trek is like pizza. When it's good, it's really good. When it's bad, it's still pretty good. :lol:

Generations is like one of those pizzas which the delivery guy has delivered ten minutes late. And when you open the box you find it's gone cold and all the cheese and the toppings have got stuck to the lid.

R. Star May 18 2013 04:42 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 8107537)
Quote:

Carcazoid wrote: (Post 8106994)
Star Trek is like pizza. When it's good, it's really good. When it's bad, it's still pretty good. :lol:

Generations is like one of those pizzas which the delivery guy has delivered ten minutes late. And when you open the box you find it's gone cold and all the cheese and the toppings have got stuck to the lid.

Excellent analogy! At least you can warm it up and it's somewhat tolerable, if disappointing though! Nemesis and Insurrection are pizzas with the wrong toppings that were probably spit in! ;)

Again, just my opinion. :)

Dukhat May 18 2013 04:45 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
Quote:

Johnny wrote: (Post 8107309)
I don't think best of both worlds was that good TBH, BLASTPHEMY! Too 1-dimensional in it's story structure. You just knew every had to get out alive in the end. The only part of All Good Things was Data's future hair and the poke scene.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion, and I'm well aware that people can come away with entirely different feelings from the same film. But I have a hard time agreeing with any of your viewpoints... especially the viewpoint that Generations was better than BoBW. Sorry, but the film was lousy. The writers of the movie itself have even gone on record to say the film was lousy.

Quote:

Generations is the only film that had the guts to change the status-quo. I think what it boils down to was that it's a film that showed how people actually live in that time, whether it was the klingon sisters wanting revenge, data pining for LaForge, or Picards family turmoil while trying to captain a ship, Sauron trying to get back to the nexus. It was all personal to each character, I genuinely felt for them.
The only change Generations made to the status quo was to bring Kirk into the 24th century in the most convoluted way possible, just to kill him.

I'm not sure how this particular film shows how people lived in the 24th century, and the other films did not. Because the Klingon sisters wanted revenge? What does that have to do with everyday life in the 24th century? And for that matter, any of the other points you wrote?

Quote:

I feels like every star trek film since has had a requirement of a baddie that wants to, at least by the end, only destroy the Enterprise. What...? An enemy that doesn't want to destroy the Enterprise... can such a thing exist?!
Enemies have wanted to destroy the Enterprise since TOS. What's your point?

Quote:

There's more character development in Generations tis why I like it.
Not only was there hardly any character development, most of the principles did nothing in this film. Riker, Worf, Geordi, Troi, and Crusher were completely pushed aside so that Picard and Data could hog the limelight, something that all four TNG films had in common. And other than the plot devices of having Picard's family die and Data's emotion chip go haywire, there was little "character development" at all.

But as I said, you're entitled to your own opinion ;)

R. Star May 18 2013 04:48 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
I recall Robert O'Reilly, Gowron's actor, saying in an interview that he was considered for the villain role in Generations and glad he didn't get it because he knew that would be the death of his character. :p

GameOn May 18 2013 08:20 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
I've always though that Generations was a complete mess of a movie. If it wasn't for awfulness of Star Trek 5 I'd rate it as the worst of all the movies.

Lance May 18 2013 11:13 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8107663)
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 8107537)
Quote:

Carcazoid wrote: (Post 8106994)
Star Trek is like pizza. When it's good, it's really good. When it's bad, it's still pretty good. :lol:

Generations is like one of those pizzas which the delivery guy has delivered ten minutes late. And when you open the box you find it's gone cold and all the cheese and the toppings have got stuck to the lid.

Excellent analogy! At least you can warm it up and it's somewhat tolerable, if disappointing though! Nemesis and Insurrection are pizzas with the wrong toppings that were probably spit in! ;)


Again, just my opinion. :)

'The Wrath of Khan Pizza' was accidental alchemy. You know the sort of thing: the right ingredients just managed to fall onto the pizza topping together by complete accident and, *BAM*, serendipity kicked in and we had the most amazing pizza ever. Nobody could quite figure out how they made such a perfect combination, but people couldn't get enough. They just wanted another slice.

However, later attempts to replicate that same recipe under controlled conditions failed. And that's what we were left with in Nemesis. The pizza tasted flat, the base was like cardboard, and Shinzon was an anchovy that was past his Sell By date. :D

Relayer1 May 18 2013 11:20 AM

Re: Generations was...
 
Generations was awful.

The rest of the TNG movies weren't great - certainly nowhere as good as the series, but Generations was a real clunker.

Johnny May 18 2013 12:08 PM

Re: Generations was...
 
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8107669)
Quote:

Johnny wrote: (Post 8107309)
I don't think best of both worlds was that good TBH, BLASTPHEMY! Too 1-dimensional in it's story structure. You just knew every had to get out alive in the end. The only part of All Good Things was Data's future hair and the poke scene.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion, and I'm well aware that people can come away with entirely different feelings from the same film. But I have a hard time agreeing with any of your viewpoints... especially the viewpoint that Generations was better than BoBW. Sorry, but the film was lousy. The writers of the movie itself have even gone on record to say the film was lousy.

Quote:

Generations is the only film that had the guts to change the status-quo. I think what it boils down to was that it's a film that showed how people actually live in that time, whether it was the klingon sisters wanting revenge, data pining for LaForge, or Picards family turmoil while trying to captain a ship, Sauron trying to get back to the nexus. It was all personal to each character, I genuinely felt for them.
The only change Generations made to the status quo was to bring Kirk into the 24th century in the most convoluted way possible, just to kill him.

I'm not sure how this particular film shows how people lived in the 24th century, and the other films did not. Because the Klingon sisters wanted revenge? What does that have to do with everyday life in the 24th century? And for that matter, any of the other points you wrote?

Quote:

I feels like every star trek film since has had a requirement of a baddie that wants to, at least by the end, only destroy the Enterprise. What...? An enemy that doesn't want to destroy the Enterprise... can such a thing exist?!
Enemies have wanted to destroy the Enterprise since TOS. What's your point?

Quote:

There's more character development in Generations tis why I like it.
Not only was there hardly any character development, most of the principles did nothing in this film. Riker, Worf, Geordi, Troi, and Crusher were completely pushed aside so that Picard and Data could hog the limelight, something that all four TNG films had in common. And other than the plot devices of having Picard's family die and Data's emotion chip go haywire, there was little "character development" at all.

But as I said, you're entitled to your own opinion ;)

1. Because in BOBW, you knew, like every other episode that everyone was going to be just fine. :) Which kinda takes the tension out of it. There were plenty of better episodes than BOBW, Drumhead for instance, now that was an intelligent concept.

2. It's about life. The sisters have been running around plotting revenge in a BoP while bargaining with a mad man wanting to blow up a planet. It changes the basic of everyone in the Federation liking teddy bears and fondue.

3. My point is, Sauron wasn't after the Enterprise, it just got in the way, which makes space feel like the Ent isn't the only ship out there, making space bigger, expanding the universe, etc, showing that people off the ship actually exist. Imagine a TV series like NCIS where the lead characters were targeted for assassination each week. Implausible and boring through repetition.

4. The result of Nemesis with that little side story for Riker, was phenomenally bad, I can see what they were trying to do, but that's what happens when you have everything happen on a ship... not much to do but press fire.
It's true that only a few of the cast got exhibition, but you can't have all the crew going through a difficult time as it will be ridiculous. I'd rather have an intelligent film revolving around a couple key characters, without it being padded out with others.

---

I'm not saying that it's the best film in the world, there are a lot of smarter written and better made non-films generally, but if I had a choice, that's the one I'd watch.

And to be honest, I shift back and forth between TUC and Gen on story, but I still think Gen is better shot.

Retrospectively filled with 'IMO's. XD
J.


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