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pirates_dc May 17 2013 06:42 AM

I Borg
 
I dont see too many people talk about this episode, but I think its great! One of my reasons why the episode got me was that the creators did a good job making me feel pitty for Hue. He was part of the deadliest species in the universe, not to mention a serious threat to the human life. And when given a chance to kill him and all those that are like him they choose not to do it! The time spent with hue gave the enemy a face!

Lt. Uhura-Brown May 17 2013 09:47 AM

Re: I Borg
 
^Hugh. Like as in Hugh Laurie (House, M.D.)

I'd have ended that episode with them uploading the paradox cascade into the Collective, and the Collective immediately dismissing it as irrelevant and deleting it without a second thought.

All that "should we/shouldn't we" angst being built up over the episode being all for nothing would have made a far more satisfying resolution, in my opinion.

GameOn May 17 2013 12:17 PM

Re: I Borg
 
It's a good episode, it always bugged me that they pretty much ignored this episode so they could give Picard a revenge storyline in the movie First Contact.

R. Star May 17 2013 12:20 PM

Re: I Borg
 
Quote:

GameOn wrote: (Post 8102479)
It's a good episode, it always bugged me that they pretty much ignored this episode so they could give Picard a revenge storyline in the movie First Contact.

Movie Picard and Show Picard are two completely different people.

MikeS May 17 2013 12:31 PM

Re: I Borg
 
Quote:

Lt. Uhura-Brown wrote: (Post 8102194)
^Hugh. Like as in Hugh Laurie (House, M.D.)

I'd have ended that episode with them uploading the paradox cascade into the Collective, and the Collective immediately dismissing it as irrelevant and deleting it without a second thought.

All that "should we/shouldn't we" angst being built up over the episode being all for nothing would have made a far more satisfying resolution, in my opinion.

I was about to disagree with you here. Ready to use Picard's reasoning with Necheyev - would you have our heroes commit genocide?!

But then I thought about it and realised that it would not have been genocide. There are no innocents amongst the Borg. They cannot be reasoned with. If we had a chemical weapon that could wipe out all of Al-Quieda would we be wrong to use it? I don't think so as they are all sworn to kill us, they are all enemy combatants, they have made their choice (I suppose some Borg never had a choice) and we have to protect ourselves, pre-emptively if needed.

I didn't like I, Borg because they weakened the Borg and it led to the terrible Descent. But the debate I've just had in my own head says that there is more to this story than I've given it credit for. I think I will enjoy rewatching it when the HD version comes out.

Chensams May 17 2013 12:46 PM

Re: I Borg
 
Same as above. I though the episode weakened the Borg and Descent was horrible. Gladly they ignored it for the movie.

Captain McBain May 17 2013 10:49 PM

Re: I Borg
 
Perhaps Movie Picard is really that phony Picard from "Allegiance"?

Tiberius May 18 2013 02:31 AM

Re: I Borg
 
The only thing I didn't like was the idea that you can defeat the Borg by showing them an M C Escher print.

sonak May 18 2013 03:15 AM

Re: I Borg
 
the idea that you could defeat the Borg with such a stupid trick was ridiculous

also, you have to pretty much change what the Borg are for Picard's reasoning to make sense.

Jazz May 19 2013 07:05 PM

Re: I Borg
 
I agree that their method for bringing down the collective was quite far fetched, especially postulating that Hugh's new found sense of individuality would wreak havoc on the Borg (aren't all drones individuals before assimilation?) but overall I think it was a brilliant episode. I just watched this episode recently actually and I'm still surprised the Borg even bothered to come back to fetch Hugh and the components from the other drones.

The way they took the most dangerous and hated enemy of the Federation and tore down the assumptions and prejudices of the crew was interesting to watch. They even set up wise old Guinan with these preconceived seemingly unwavering ideas of who the Borg are, and by the end of the episode she was up to bat for Hugh. I think this episode works because it says a lot about knowing one's enemy and the own prejudices we hold. This episode gave the crew (and audience) an interesting insight into loneliness as well.

I have to admit the other thing I didn't like about this episode was Dr Crusher. Yes she's taken the Hippocratic oath and is committed to healing individuals but her incessant holier than thou attitude in this episode didn't sit well with me. It felt like the writers were just using her as a lazy way to bring up conflict instead of bringing it out from the plot. I can see her wanting to bring Hugh on to the ship when they found him, that fits with her character. But the scene that gets me is the one where they are sitting in the observation lounge and discussing implementing the virus and she asks "Isn't this genocide?" which launches a very unnatural feeling speech where Captain Picard defends his position that the Borg as a collective are not innocent. I feel like maybe that discussion would have worked a bit better either later on in the episode OR if maybe she wasn't the only one who was questioning the validity of their plan at that point.

I don't think this episode negates the Captain's feelings about the Borg as a collective or organization. His experience with one briefly liberated borg drone does not erase the trauma he faced when he was forced to act as a member of the collective to eradicate humanity.

Ain Jalut May 22 2013 02:34 AM

Re: I Borg
 
Quote:

Chensams wrote: (Post 8102557)
Same as above. I though the episode weakened the Borg and Descent was horrible. Gladly they ignored it for the movie.

I actually liked the turbo Borg in Descent.

horatio83 May 22 2013 02:46 AM

Re: I Borg
 
Quote:

MikeS wrote: (Post 8102515)
But then I thought about it and realised that it would not have been genocide. There are no innocents amongst the Borg. They cannot be reasoned with. If we had a chemical weapon that could wipe out all of Al-Quieda would we be wrong to use it? I don't think so as they are all sworn to kill us, they are all enemy combatants, they have made their choice (I suppose some Borg never had a choice) and we have to protect ourselves, pre-emptively if needed.

Yes, the Borg never had a choice which is why your reasoning is wrong. The episode made it crystal clear that the Borg as cyborgs are not evil, their ideology is. Once you sever a Borg from the collective he is a fairly nice guy.
In my opinion this was the best Borg story as it emphasized the ideological differences between the Feds and the Borg. The very regard for the individual is what makes Picard not use Hugh as a weapon, not convert him back into a drone (for the UFP). You cannot fight your enemy if you use his methods unless you wanna become a like him .. but then you have not won, he has.

BennieGamali May 27 2013 01:05 AM

Re: I Borg
 
Was one of my faves. I love the borg, and I love it when scary-deadly-dangerous mnster things turn out to be adorable little weirdos.. Anyway. I loved it.

Mojochi May 27 2013 04:02 AM

Re: I Borg
 
Quote:

horatio83 wrote: (Post 8132875)
Once you sever a Borg from the collective he is a fairly nice guy.

Actually, I never took it that way completely, & Descent tends to lean another way too. I got to thinking that when you sever a Borg from the collective they become a person, an individual. Hugh became a nice guy, whose most pronounced traits were being scared, lonely, & interested. I always thought how fortunate it was that they ended up with Hugh, instead of a Borg who might have turned angry, belligerent, & untrusting. Individuality has many facet

Beta-Z May 27 2013 03:00 PM

Re: I Borg
 
The end of that act when Picard says "What did you say? I??? But you are Borg!" and the Borg replies "No, I am Hugh" and then Picards look on his face and that music playing while fading out.... just WOW! I guess there is no other scene in the show that ever gave me that amount of goose bumps! So intense! Can't wait for this on Blu-ray!
Wonderful episode. Hope it gets a commentary with the director and Jonathan del Arco.

http://www.space-debris.com/tng_delarco.jpg
http://www.areadvd.de/vb/images/smil...eadvd/love.gif


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