The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Deep Space Nine (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40)
-   -   The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary" (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=212989)

tafkats May 16 2013 03:05 AM

The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
Was the Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary" intended to be more than just a reflection of how the Sisko character might react in such a situation?

Was the obvious hostility intended to place emotional distance between the two shows in the franchise ... explicitly giving them more separate identities by showing more conflict between each series' leading man than had been shown between any two 24th-century Starfleet officers to date?

Dream May 16 2013 03:11 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
It was a passing of the torch, with the twist that the new guy despised the first character.

I think Sisko should have apologized at end though. I was quite surprised Picard didn't chew him out.

tafkats May 16 2013 03:17 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
I think the fact that Picard didn't chew him out, or anything like it, indicates how much of a lingering effect his time with the Borg has on him...

Mr. Laser Beam May 16 2013 03:48 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
And also that Picard isn't so petty that he would ignore Sisko's obvious pain. For all that Picard went through as Locutus, at least he got his life back at the end. Sisko lost Jennifer permanently.

C.E. Evans May 16 2013 04:20 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
I know it may upset Picard fans, but Sisko didn't need to apologize to Picard for how he originally felt--he was just being honest. For three years, Sisko had been grieving over the loss of his wife and he then meets the man whose face was forever etched in his mind as the architect of the worst moment of his life. Sisko can't just smile and pretend that it didn't happen--and Picard knew that too. Sisko had yet to undergo the journey to put that pain behind him and start living again, and once that was complete only then could he see Picard as Picard rather than Locutus.

Heck, I imagine that there are still many in Starfleet who aren't Picard fans because of his time as Locutus, but at least Sisko got over it.

SchwEnt May 16 2013 04:39 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
That was a great scene and much larger than just the two characters.

Sure, we know the inside track of Picard's ordeal with the Borg and how it happened and what happened.

But for the general public, and probably most of Starfleet, all they know is a starship captain was captured and turned by the Borg to fight against Federation forces and wipe out thousands of lives at Wolf 359. The starship captain was eventually rescued and returned to starship service.

How much more would people really know?

I'd bet Sisko wasn't the only one who lost loved ones and held a grudge against this starship captain Picard.

Look at the reaction Kirk got from his collegues over the loss of Finney. Imagine the reaction Picard probably got over the loss of thousands.

Sisko wasn't alone. And that scene showed a bit of what was maybe a lot of resentment and anger held by a lot of people in mourning over Wolf 359.

DonIago May 16 2013 04:55 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
I suspect there are many who, consciously or otherwise, might believe on some level that if they'd been in Picard's shoes things might have turned out better as well.

R. Star May 16 2013 10:29 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
I personally liked the scene between Sisko and Picard precisely because Sisko was someone outside of Picard's social circle. It showed how an average person who survived the events of Wolf 359 would react. It's not fair, but it's there. Picard's face was the one on the view screen when Sisko's wife dies, and how that face is ordering him to the equivalent of the ass end of the galaxy to live in a trashy space station turning his kid into a virtual refugee.

As for an apology at the end? Nah... there seemed to be so much chemistry between the two and unsaid words in both of their scenes that an apology would just derail from that. Sisko's obvious competence and the fact that he had found a new direction for his life was enough for Sisko to look at Picard and see past own his pain.

garak1 May 16 2013 10:54 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
I liked the scene. I think it gave a nice connection between the two series. Avery Brooks and Patrick Stewart are such fine actors, they did it so well.

The hostility was perfectly understandable, but Picard's diplomatic reaction was also so typical of his character.

In reading these posts, I think it's a shame that there was never any reapproachment between the pair later in the serie after Sisko had dealt with his pain. What a show that could have been.

Marcus Porcius Cato May 18 2013 09:58 PM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
According to Memory Alpha, the Season 1 ending was supposes to have another major crossover with TNG season 6. It would have been interesting to see how Sisko would have treated Picard then.

NKemp3 May 19 2013 02:27 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
It was a fantatstic idea to have Sisko not have warm feelings regarding a fellow Starfleet officer (even if those feelings would change at the end of the ep). It was bold for the writers to go there considering how popular Picard was and how Trek fans were not used to such conflict and hostility. In retrospect it hurt Sisko's character for the longest time because Trek fans couldn't appreciate the backstories and personal dynamics; Trek fans instead took sides. And Sisko was the loser for it. One guy who wrote some Trek tech book even mentioned the scene in the episode in his book and admitted he hated Sisko at first because he had been mean to "his hero" Picard. Good grief.

DarKush May 19 2013 02:32 AM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
I loved that scene. Sisko answering "in battle," was done with such force and the stricken look on Picard's face was priceless. I don't think an apology was necessary but perhaps implied in the sense that by the end of "Emissary" the healing process for Sisko had begun. I think the meeting with Picard really helped establish Sisko at a certain emotional place that would allow the arc to begin.

Sisko's reaction was normal to me. I mean, we didn't get to see enough of how the rest of Starfleet or the Federation might have reacted to Picard. I'm surprised that we didn't get an episode after "Home" where Picard has to fight to remain captain of the Enterprise. At least First Contact returned to the idea of people being leery about Picard in the event of a Borg incident.

It would've been great to see a Picard-Sisko team up in TNG Season 6. If they could've found a way to put Sisko into the "Descent" two-parter I probably would've liked it better. And I finally would've gotten to see Sisko v. Borg Round Two (even if it wasn't the actual Borg Collective).

Mysterion May 19 2013 04:32 PM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
That scene caused me to:

1) Like Sisko almost immediately.
2) Despise Picard more than i ever had.

Picard comes off as elitist, dismissive, and condescending to Sisko in that scene. IMO. He prattles on about how Starfleet officers don't always have the luxury of having the assignments they desire, yadda, yadda, yadda, all the while sitting in his plush conference lounge playing with his tea set.

Hartzilla2007 May 19 2013 05:53 PM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
Quote:

DarKush wrote: (Post 8113141)
If they could've found a way to put Sisko into the "Descent" two-parter I probably would've liked it better. And I finally would've gotten to see Sisko v. Borg Round Two (even if it wasn't the actual Borg Collective).

Interestingly enough "Descent" was originally supposted to be a TNG/DS9 crossover.

t_smitts May 19 2013 06:42 PM

Re: The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"
 
Quote:

Mysterion wrote: (Post 8116522)
That scene caused me to:

1) Like Sisko almost immediately.
2) Despise Picard more than i ever had.

Picard comes off as elitist, dismissive, and condescending to Sisko in that scene. IMO. He prattles on about how Starfleet officers don't always have the luxury of having the assignments they desire, yadda, yadda, yadda, all the while sitting in his plush conference lounge playing with his tea set.

Big whoop. Picard earned his "plush conference lounge" with over 35 years of command experience and his own trauma at the hands of the Borg was scarring in its own right.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.