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-   -   who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=212905)

xvicente May 15 2013 03:31 PM

who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
I the real world, I mean. Certainly It was not invented in ST II , like the Klingon proverb.

Christopher May 15 2013 03:42 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
I've found some sites claiming it's a quote from A Tale of Two Cities, which is referenced elsewhere in the film, but I searched the whole text at Project Gutenberg and it's not there.

Although the concept certainly predates The Wrath of Khan, it does seem that the exact phrasing did originate there.

King Daniel Into Darkness May 15 2013 03:49 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
Surak. Dur.

:p

Mysterion May 15 2013 05:14 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
According to answers.com:


Quote:

answers.com wrote:
Answer:


It wasn't a philosopher, but was first spoken by Leonard Nimoy's Spock in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. However, philosopher Jeremy Bentham had a similar quote: "It is the greatest good to the greatest number of people which is the measure of right and wrong."


R. Star May 16 2013 12:22 AM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
It was Shakespeare in the original Klingon text. ;)

horatio83 May 16 2013 12:37 AM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 8091712)
Surak. Dur.

:p

It definitely sounds like something Surak could have said or written. Given that the few later became the Romulans his line might not have been that smart. ;)
Seriously, I like that Trek used different ethical ideas. On the one hand this utilitarian stuff, on the other hand the very opposite, liberal "human" rights, in "I, Borg".

cardinal biggles May 16 2013 06:49 AM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 8091697)
I've found some sites claiming it's a quote from A Tale of Two Cities, which is referenced elsewhere in the film, but I searched the whole text at Project Gutenberg and it's not there.

Given the references at the beginning and end of the film (plus the references to other authors including Laclos and Melville), it's not surprising some viewers figured this was Meyer sneaking in yet another literary reference.

Christopher May 16 2013 01:53 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
^Yeah, but they still guessed instead of checking, and that's a mistake.

sonak May 16 2013 07:57 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
Quote:

Mysterion wrote: (Post 8092069)
According to answers.com:


Quote:

answers.com wrote:
Answer:


It wasn't a philosopher, but was first spoken by Leonard Nimoy's Spock in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. However, philosopher Jeremy Bentham had a similar quote: "It is the greatest good to the greatest number of people which is the measure of right and wrong."



yeah, the idea is basically classical utilitarianism.

Greg Cox May 16 2013 08:26 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
Yeah, I don't think it's a quote or allusion. Just a bit of Vulcan logic.

Elder Knight May 21 2013 03:55 AM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
You can still meet Bentham face to face: he's mummified at his old society's headquarters.

Marsden May 23 2013 04:43 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
Quote:

xvicente wrote: (Post 8091661)
I the real world, I mean. Certainly It was not invented in ST II , like the Klingon proverb.

The Klingon proverb wasn't invented. It was a real proverb that they stuck the word Klingon on to.

Christopher May 23 2013 05:47 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
Nicholas Meyer seemed to enjoy the joke of taking an Earthly saying or quotation and having a character attribute it to an alien race. Khan did it with "Revenge is a dish...," and in TUC, Spock said "Only Nixon could go to China" was a Vulcan saying -- not to mention "Shakespeare in the original Klingon."

RXTT May 23 2013 08:35 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
It is feasible for two completely separate cultures to create the same aphorism, no?

RXTT May 23 2013 08:36 PM

Re: who said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"?
 
It really does seem that while the idea/concept stated by this phrase was old, the exact wording of it is straight up a creation of Wrath of Khan.


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