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-   -   Rogue Reviews thread [Read-only] [SPOILERS, no doubt] (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=212338)

AntonyF May 10 2013 11:15 AM

Rogue Reviews thread [Read-only] [SPOILERS, no doubt]
 
I'm feeling dejected after watching the new movie yesterday, so had to come spew some thoughts. Because I have a feeling of disappointment.

I'm trying to work out where my mood changed. I was enjoying the movie SO frigging much. Then it jumped the shark, and I found my interest and excitement waned. And it came at the moment... where he says he's Khan.

I did cringe when it happened, but it seems that's when I started to switch off. I'm not sure why I'm so against it... other than we've been hearing it for two years. It's just such old news, and they've denied it again and again (Simon Pegg: "Itís not Khan. Thatís a myth."). So this doesn't feel like a surprise, it feels like a trick. And it feels like an OLD trick, something we've heard about for years.

Then it just got more and more jump the sharky (if that's possible). Kirk 'dying', you know he won't die and they set up the tribble thing earlier clearly so no drama there. The old Spock dear god no... that was the worst point. It added NOTHING. We've launched the new Trek, no need for him there - and it's possibly the worst instance of deus ex machina I've seen.

And there were so many tears it was like an One Tree Hill episode.

But I don't known why they needed to do Khan. He could have been someone else. Cumberbatch is nothing like the old Khan and didn't try to be. Today I was thinking I wish he was another character. And wouldn't it have been cool if, in the pull back of 'caskets' at the end, they had a CGI-ed up 'old Khan' in one of them? i.e. same group, but this course of history someone else came out of the tube? Then they can have their cake and eat it. I just don't get the point of having Khan.

Stupid decisions like old Spock aside, I feel my major disappointment was this wasn't new. I have waited FOUR years for new Trek, I want new... yet we got more old characters, and not only that one that has been rumoured for seemingly ages.

So that leaves me feeling disappointed. They could have thrown off the shackles and done something fresh.

M May 10 2013 11:19 AM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
That's more or less exactly how I feel. And it's interesting, now that you mention it, I think my interest started to wane, too, the moment Harrison was revealed to be Khan. I don't know, why, but it felt really really odd.

Oso Blanco May 10 2013 11:25 AM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
I also agree, except for Spock Prime. I loved his cameo! There can never be enough Spock Prime in nuTrek!

As for Cumberbatch, it would have made more sense for him to be Joaquin or one of the other augments. Showing Khan as one of the still frozen people would indeed have been a nice touch.

Pingfah May 10 2013 11:35 AM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
I agree with a lot of that. I actually really enjoyed the film from start to end, but the constant retreading of old ground is incredibly distracting.

I thought before I even went in, that if the 2nd ST reboot movie was a Khan movie that would be a pretty lame idea, but then to introduce Carol Marcus as well, and lift whole scenes from TWOK and indeed the most iconic line in all of Trek and just swap the characters about was really unnecessary.

As it turned out, it was a good Khan movie IMO, very exciting and Cumberbatch was exceptional in the part. I would have preferred a completely new story, but failing that they should have just left the other references to old trek to the inclusion of the Khan character.

King Daniel Into Darkness May 10 2013 11:41 AM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
I thought the film was *perfect* until they redid Wrath of Khan (an old guy got up and walked out!) and then the "KHAAAAAN!" killed it for me with it's awfulness. It was unintentional parody:( I got my face out of my palm in time to enjoy the final fight, but the film's momentum took a HUGE hit.

Overall I still liked it a lot.

Pingfah May 10 2013 11:44 AM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
I'm just not sure who they are doing it for. New fans aren't going to care, and old fans are just going to find it jarring.

Phily B May 10 2013 11:50 AM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
I really didn't care, the only part I found a bit weird was the Khaaaaaan part.

AntonyF May 10 2013 12:12 PM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
Quote:

Pingfah wrote: (Post 8067169)
I'm just not sure who they are doing it for. New fans aren't going to care, and old fans are just going to find it jarring.

I think - along with the KHAAANN thing - it almost became too fanboyish. Whereas the first one tried to breakaway from the old one a more, this seemed to want to go back to it. The constant references were a little too much trying to show knowledge of the old.

It reminds me of times like those spin off Pocket Books you get, where you get Conn Officer 2 from an episode of season 2 of TNG in a Deep Space Nine spin off book in 2013.

Which is a shame, as they don't need to do that so much.

Paul Weaver May 10 2013 12:13 PM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
The destruction of the Kelvin would have changed so many things that it's very unlikely that the same 7 people would turn up on the same ship, butterfly effect and all, so I think there's certainly some larger "destiny" path flowing through the trek universe. We see it in the mirror universe to a larger extent, especially in the DS9 episodes.

That's the only way I can justify Khan being there. I was expecting to see the botony bay in orbit of Jupiter though, a shame it wasn't.

They could have kept the same storyline, but instead use another of Khan's crew, and I think that would have been better.

When Pegg was holding Spock back, I was expecting "He'll die/he's dead already".

Visuals were let down by the "need" for 3d as usual (I watched in 2D), just like the hobbit. The race through the "abandoned sector" of Kronos, the ridiculously long cargo bay, the debris field at the end :rolleyes:

And 5 minutes from Kronos to Earth at warp speed? Then being blasted out of warp 1 light second away from earth? When were they planning on stopping?!

Anyone got a guess on how many were killed when the ship crashed into San Francisco? Buildings toppling like dominos. Based on the earlier attack on the conference room, there's no "emergency beamout" facility even for a dozen of starfleet's "top brass", let alone thousands of people in apartments and offices. This is a far more devastating blow to Starfleet than the destruction of a few ships around Vulcan.

I liked the Section 31 reference too, I didn't like it being "part of starfleet", rather than "part of the federation", but I can forgive these things.

Overall, I'm fairly easy going. I loved Leonard Nimoy's part. I loved Kirk's womanising at the beginning, Bones was bang on as usual. Sulu showing signs of liking the big chair, how long before we see the Excelsior?

And of course Pine with the final "These are the voyages", wonderful.

I didn't like Spock crying though.

AntonyF May 10 2013 12:15 PM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
Also FWIW this is the sort of film I may like more on the second viewing, as it strips away expectations and disappointments and you watch it more for what it is.

trekkiebaggio May 10 2013 12:27 PM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
I'll echo the general sentiments here. I didn't mind that they used Khan, I was a bit disappointed though because it didn't seem worthy of all the secrecy (especially when compared with how Iron Man 3 handled their villain). The replay of the scene from TWOK didn't have anywhere near the same emotional poignancy of the original. In fact, just thinking aloud here, I almost think it would have been better had the replayed another scene from TWOK - that of Preston's death, but instead of Preston it's Chekhov. As it was there was no drama to Kirk's death because Khan's blood had been telegraphed.

But the main reason why I felt dejected was because at the end when the Enterprise embarked on her five year mission...I really want to see that five year mission! Two hours every three years isn't enough.

Oso Blanco May 10 2013 12:29 PM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
Quote:

Paul Weaver wrote: (Post 8067247)
Anyone got a guess on how many were killed when the ship crashed into San Francisco? Buildings toppling like dominos. Based on the earlier attack on the conference room, there's no "emergency beamout" facility even for a dozen of starfleet's "top brass", let alone thousands of people in apartments and offices. This is a far more devastating blow to Starfleet than the destruction of a few ships around Vulcan.

That's what I asked myself. There must have been thousands if not tens of thousends of victims there! But no one seems to worry.

Pingfah May 10 2013 12:30 PM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
Quote:

AntonyF wrote: (Post 8067256)
Also FWIW this is the sort of film I may like more on the second viewing, as it strips away expectations and disappointments and you watch it more for what it is.

I agree, I expect the stuff that annoyed me to annoy me less next time. That'll be on Blu Ray though.

Cid Highwind May 10 2013 01:46 PM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
Spot on, AnthonyF. I thought the same when watching the movie - not bad overall, but the whole Khan reveal felt like a cheap trick.

Another thing that annoyed me to no end was the fact that several scenes felt as if they were just added to the movie so that they could be used out of context in one of the misleading trailers. For example the villain ship, which looked similar enough to the Enterprise so that its crash into water could have been the Enterprise. Or the Enterprise rising from the ocean in a completely separate scene, made to look as if it might be a follow-up to the crash.

Phily B May 10 2013 01:55 PM

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*
 
I loved the crash scene and how you see it move past the Enterprise after the Enterprise recovers.

I think that's actually a neat little "trick" even though most of us nerds who analysed the trailer didn't think it was the Enterprise..


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