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-   -   Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying. (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=212305)

ConRefit79 May 10 2013 03:56 PM

Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
If we changed nothing else other than Picard coming to his senses, sending Data back and sacrificing himself. That would have been a different twist on the reset button. They set us up with another reset button option and at the last minute don't use it. I think it would have added more meaning to the ending of that film. Then we have the crew has lost its leader/father figure. Seeing Data dealing with that emotion. Riker gains command of the Enterprise but at a very high price. And Crusher has the what might have been.

sonak May 10 2013 04:03 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Quote:

ConRefit79 wrote: (Post 8068093)
If we changed nothing else other than Picard coming to his senses, sending Data back and sacrificing himself. That would have been a different twist on the reset button. They set us up with another reset button option and at the last minute don't use it. I think it would have added more meaning to the ending of that film. Then we have the crew has lost its leader/father figure. Seeing Data dealing with that emotion. Riker gains command of the Enterprise but at a very high price. And Crusher has the what might have been.


I think this improves it slightly because you don't have the "built-in reset button" with Picard that you did with B4, and therefore the impact is more genuine, but I don't think it really improves the film that much.

ConRefit79 May 10 2013 05:08 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 8068147)
I think this improves it slightly because you don't have the "built-in reset button" with Picard that you did with B4, and therefore the impact is more genuine, but I don't think it really improves the film that much.

True, it needs much more work to make it very good. But at least the ending would have been a surprise.

Dukhat May 12 2013 02:31 AM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Quote:

ConRefit79 wrote: (Post 8068504)
True, it needs much more work to make it very good. But at least the ending would have been a surprise.

Not even that's true. We all knew the entire script for Nemesis online before the movie even came out.

TheSubCommander May 12 2013 08:08 AM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8074918)
Quote:

ConRefit79 wrote: (Post 8068504)
True, it needs much more work to make it very good. But at least the ending would have been a surprise.

Not even that's true. We all knew the entire script for Nemesis online before the movie even came out.

Indeed!:rommie:

I resemble that remark.

R. Star May 12 2013 08:11 AM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Honestly... tweaking the ending isn't going to fix all the problems this movie has. All Picard dying would confirm is that this movie -did- in fact kill the TNG franchise. Though I'm sure the novelists would find a way to resurrect him somehow. :p

Lance May 12 2013 12:30 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
I've given it a great deal of thought (not having a life can do that to a person ;)), and IMO what Nemesis really needed to work with that story is for Shinzon to not be Picard's friggin' CLONE.

Look at it this way: North Korea. Imagine Shinzon as Kim Jong Un. He's the cocky young heir apparent to a long time nemesis of the Federation. There's been a spill in the Romulan senate and this new guy has become praetor. The Feds know nothing about him, and are cautious about what his true motives are, especially after he makes an offer of peace. All of this is exactly as seen in the movie, but where the plot splits with the established script is that in this version Shinzon isn't a Picard clone, but rather a genuine Reman... or possibly even a Romulan. The movie takes a more political flair, and Picard no longer has a 'personal' stake in the plot. Rather, he has to act as a professional diplomat, immediately aligning him to the Picard character as seen on TV. The plot could go in any number of better directions from this setup than it did in the actual movie. Shinzon being Picard's clone is a major headache in the existing script and makes a mockery of Shinzon as a villain (and Picard in the process too).

Instead of being a souless action shoot 'em up, instead Nemesis could have been an intriguing political drama... all without changing too much about the fundamental story setup. And with Shinzon being radically unhinged, they could still have worked some action scenes in to keep the popcorn munchers happy. Win/Win. :)

ConRefit79 May 12 2013 04:04 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
^
Agreed the clone thing was just dumb. Could still be a part human. Maybe Sela's son. But I was thinking trying to make a small tweak so the ending would not have been so predictable. We saw it coming a mile away. And I went into the movie not knowing that part. I knew there would be a lone of Picard as the villian. And it involves Romulans and Remans, but that is it.

DonIago May 12 2013 04:48 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
My opinion is that no, that would not have made the ending more satisfying.

sonak May 12 2013 08:50 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8074918)
Quote:

ConRefit79 wrote: (Post 8068504)
True, it needs much more work to make it very good. But at least the ending would have been a surprise.

Not even that's true. We all knew the entire script for Nemesis online before the movie even came out.


speak for yourself. I avoid spoilers. I know nothing about STID except what I know from the trailers.

Xavier_Storma May 13 2013 12:01 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Quote:

ConRefit79 wrote: (Post 8076802)
^
Agreed the clone thing was just dumb. Could still be a part human. Maybe Sela's son. But I was thinking trying to make a small tweak so the ending would not have been so predictable. We saw it coming a mile away. And I went into the movie not knowing that part. I knew there would be a lone of Picard as the villian. And it involves Romulans and Remans, but that is it.

The problem is that the story and the impact of the film would not have worked that way. It was not about Romulans, Remans etc. It was about personality. What makes us human, what makes us unique, where your place in this world is.
The political setup was just the stage for the central play.

I liked it, though I wish they would restore those 50 minutes of footage and make a proper extended cut. It would be the swan song the TNG crew deserves.

Dukhat May 13 2013 12:45 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 8078041)
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 8074918)
Quote:

ConRefit79 wrote: (Post 8068504)
True, it needs much more work to make it very good. But at least the ending would have been a surprise.

Not even that's true. We all knew the entire script for Nemesis online before the movie even came out.


speak for yourself. I avoid spoilers. I know nothing about STID except what I know from the trailers.

And for every one person like yourself, there are 100 others who will spoil themselves just fine. And anyway, comparing being spoiled for STID and being spoiled for Nemesis is like comparing apples to oranges as far as how much information was out there before each movie was shown.

cardinal biggles May 13 2013 02:34 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Ten years on, I still think the best way to improve Nemesis is to destroy every copy, and make sure Stuart Baird never directs another film, and John Logan never writes another screenplay. Sadly, only one of those three has come to pass.

22 Stars May 13 2013 02:56 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
PS should have played Shinzon in the second half of the film and Data should not have had a duplicate as well. That would have made the film better.

ConRefit79 May 13 2013 03:30 PM

Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.
 
Quote:

22 Stars wrote: (Post 8081455)
PS should have played Shinzon in the second half of the film and Data should not have had a duplicate as well. That would have made the film better.

I had considered not including B4. But rather have Data suffer brain damage which causes him to be like B4. But I guess losing a major character(Picard) and having another severely injured would have made the ending even more depressing.


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