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HOoftheKinshaya April 28 2013 02:03 AM

Reimagined Gorn
 
Do you like them?

I wasn't very impressed. The Gorn Champion was the only part that felt right. For that point it felt like Kirk fighting the Gorn Captain on TOS.

The part that irked me the most was that they were an galaxy dominating species without any other motive. The JJ Abramverse worked fine in the movie because it uses a time paradox device but essentially remains canonical. The Gorn being from another Galaxy and conquerors vs being from our own and territorial xenophobes is a radical departure from established canon.

Somehow Nero coming to the past shunted an entire species off to another galaxy with a completely new history? Come on. Canon? Really?

Granted the lone appearances in TOS and Enterprise are not much to go on but we do know their motivation at Cestus III and we know that they considered part of their territory.
We also know they are immensely strong, not very agile and extremely durable like shrugging a multi-ton boulder steaming down the hill into them as if it were a back yard football tackle but that is about all.

Their ships and tech is much an open book and there was plenty of room to create there but in a lot of ways they made huge deviations and I don't see how they can claim the game is canon where the Gorn are concerned.

publiusr April 28 2013 08:23 PM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
I think the spacecraft the Gorn have been depicted as having in Comics, SFB, FASA, remastered, computer games are probably the most diverse of any group. No similar themes.

BillJ April 29 2013 01:40 AM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Quote:

HOoftheKinshaya wrote: (Post 8012233)
Their ships and tech is much an open book and there was plenty of room to create there but in a lot of ways they made huge deviations and I don't see how they can claim the game is canon where the Gorn are concerned.

Much of the Gorn is an open book and I don't see anything that really conflicts with on-screen material so much that you can't work around it.

-Brett- April 29 2013 03:04 AM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Tie in games and books have never been considered canon before. Don't see any reason to start now.

HOoftheKinshaya April 29 2013 03:18 AM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8016493)
Quote:

HOoftheKinshaya wrote: (Post 8012233)
Their ships and tech is much an open book and there was plenty of room to create there but in a lot of ways they made huge deviations and I don't see how they can claim the game is canon where the Gorn are concerned.

Much of the Gorn is an open book and I don't see anything that really conflicts with on-screen material so much that you can't work around it.


Where to start? For one they are an Alpha Quadrant power and considered Cestus III part of their territory, not from some far off Galaxy or even a far off quadrant like the Gamma quadrant only accessible through a worm hole/rift. Sorry they are the Dominion.

Their history is unknown but clearly in was in the Milky Way and Alpha Quadrant to boot so they weren't galaxy conquering expansionist as in all the history through Deep Space Nine and Voyager were they even mentioned, let alone engaged in some galactic war to control the Milky Way or even the Alpha quadrant. So all canonical history shows them to be what was portrayed in Arena as territorial xenophobes who simply attacked because they though their space was being invaded.

Of course physiologically their were wild deviations. The Gorn in Arena, or even the ENT epsiode, In A Mirror Darkly were not portrayed as quick or agile. The game got their immense strength and durability right but turned them into raptors instead of the stolid plodding creatures in the tv series. Only the Gorn Champion was an accurate representation.

They only areas were they could have taken huge license to change was the tech and ships as they have been unseen.

BillJ April 29 2013 05:02 AM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Thousands of years ago, the Gorn could've suffered a cultural split much like the Vulcans/Romulans. One group set out to find a new home and ended up in our galaxy. Beginning anew.

And the Gorn velociraptor from Enterprise seemed much quicker than his TOS counterpart.

Easy as pie.

General_Phoenix April 29 2013 05:25 AM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
I was just glad they went with the Gorn as the villain instead of doing the safe thing and using Romulans or Klingons. I kinda agree with the radically changing the Gorn origins, but since this is the new timeline I am fine with it. Also, I am probably one of the few that feels this timeline has always been different, even as far back as the Kelvin.

HOoftheKinshaya April 29 2013 01:30 PM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8017339)
Thousands of years ago, the Gorn could've suffered a cultural split much like the Vulcans/Romulans. One group set out to find a new home and ended up in our galaxy. Beginning anew.

And the Gorn velociraptor from Enterprise seemed much quicker than his TOS counterpart.

Easy as pie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7NZ9IDtTc


No not very quick as Archer was crawling away as fast he was approaching. Still slow and plodding and no tail. The biggest change via CGI was the eyes.

HOoftheKinshaya April 29 2013 01:32 PM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Quote:

General_Phoenix wrote: (Post 8017378)
I was just glad they went with the Gorn as the villain instead of doing the safe thing and using Romulans or Klingons. I kinda agree with the radically changing the Gorn origins, but since this is the new timeline I am fine with it. Also, I am probably one of the few that feels this timeline has always been different, even as far back as the Kelvin.


Even if you go far back as the Kelvin, it doesn't rewrite the entire cultural and evolutionary history of a space fareing species for thousands years, or the galaxy of their origin.

The Keilvin was only 20 some odd years before the events of the movie.

BillJ April 29 2013 02:27 PM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Quote:

HOoftheKinshaya wrote: (Post 8018140)
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8017339)
Thousands of years ago, the Gorn could've suffered a cultural split much like the Vulcans/Romulans. One group set out to find a new home and ended up in our galaxy. Beginning anew.

And the Gorn velociraptor from Enterprise seemed much quicker than his TOS counterpart.

Easy as pie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7NZ9IDtTc


No not very quick as Archer was crawling away as fast he was approaching. Still slow and plodding and no tail. The biggest change via CGI was the eyes.

He closed ground on the "red shirt" rather quickly in that clip.

Obiwansolo18 April 29 2013 03:18 PM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
It seems that there shouldnt beany conflict in this "new" gorn vs the "old" gorn. There was probably they had most room to do something different. Why not allow them to be galaxy conquering race? I watched the episodes involving the gorn again before playing the game. It seems that they did a lot with them that made them a more convincing foe to the federation. Sometimes things with such little past needs some growth for future interest in using the idea (in this case species).

King Daniel Into Darkness April 29 2013 03:23 PM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
I think it's pretty clear that the makers of the game treated JJ Abrams' Star Trek as a full-on reboot, rather than the branching timeline that the movie writers have claimed in interviews.

That said, the radically different Gorn types don't bother me - different castes have been a staple of the novelverse for years now. The Gorn Champion is likely the game's visually upgraded version of the Bad Rubber Suit Gorn from "Arena" which in the novelverse is the Gorn Warrior caste.

The backstory is more difficult. I think it's a poor fit even for the very little we know of the Gorn in Trek canon. But the same could be (and was) said about the Klingons in The Motion Picture and beyond - they were completely changed simply because Gene Roddenberry wanted to.

And I like BillJ's idea of an Vulcan/Romulan-style ancient cultural schizm.:bolian:

ATimson April 30 2013 01:48 AM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 8018578)
And I like BillJ's idea of an Vulcan/Romulan-style ancient cultural schizm.:bolian:

I like the idea too, but it's harder to rationalize the distances involved here!

BillJ April 30 2013 01:53 AM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Quote:

ATimson wrote: (Post 8021455)
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 8018578)
And I like BillJ's idea of an Vulcan/Romulan-style ancient cultural schizm.:bolian:

I like the idea too, but it's harder to rationalize the distances involved here!

The Kelvans made it to the Milky Way. :techman:

ATimson April 30 2013 03:55 AM

Re: Reimagined Gorn
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8021488)
Quote:

ATimson wrote: (Post 8021455)
I like the idea too, but it's harder to rationalize the distances involved here!

The Kelvans made it to the Milky Way. :techman:

True. But if the Gorn had the tech, why didn't they show up before the Helios Device opened the Rip?

(Oh. Obvious answer: They didn't have the patience the Kelvans did. The peaceful schismatics who colonized our galaxy did.)


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