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-   -   Harry Kim: Hero or Zero? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=209761)

Melakon April 17 2013 11:39 PM

Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
OOPS WRONG FORUM, MODS PLEASE MOVE!

It would help if I had the series collection, but I only have about a dozen episodes and hazy memories to draw from for discussion. Maybe I should make the series collection my next goal for a few months.

Seven years feels like a long time as an ensign, but I've never been in the military and don't know what's normal for an ambitious career minded officer, which Harry seems to be. He's intelligent and usually competent in his job. On occasion he has moments of genius in finding a solution to a problem. He's musically talented. He doesn't choose his friends based on what people tell him. On first meetings, he probably looks exactly like the image Starfleet wants to promote.

But like all potential heroes, Harry has flaws. And they all seem to be character personality flaws. He's homesick. Why the hell did he enlist? When he makes a mistake, he tortures himself with criticism for being such a dunderhead. He sometimes thinks with his gonads, but most of us are likely guilty of that.

It seems Harry gets a lot of flak for some of this in fandom, though many characters have good and bad traits. I guess some of the flak could be from people who don't like Garrett Wang for whatever reason, but that can't account for all of it.

billcosby April 17 2013 11:48 PM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
I don't think there was much leadership material in the character. Seven years as an ensign feels about right to me.

Garrett might have played him differently but I can't imagine what Wil Weaton would have done to do Wesley better... although by the series' end, Wes was much more agreeable. The Game, The First Duty, Parallels, and Journey's End were all great Wesley appearances.

Perhaps that was the in-joke about Harry all along; way too green about the gills.

Melakon April 17 2013 11:51 PM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
My apologies for posting in DS9 forum, I've sent mod notice. Was watching a Voyager episode, paused to check forums, and failed miserably.

Third Nacelle April 18 2013 12:00 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
If Janeway promotes EVERYBODY on Voyager, isn't that pretty much the same as promoting no one?

If they spent 70 years in the DQ and she made everybody a commander, somebody would still have to be scrubbing the plasma manifolds. I know she promoted Tuvok, but he might have been due for one before they left the AQ. For all we know Harry jumped straight to lieutenant or lt. commander upon their return due to his experiences out there.

R. Star April 18 2013 12:15 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
They were going for the eager young space novice with the character concept, that much was obvious. Beyond that he just flopped as a character. His personality was wooden and usually boiled down to how homesick he was. He was like anti-sexual in that not only does he have to screw up his own blundering attempts in the most facepalming ways, but he has to actively cockblock everyone else in the vicinity. The first three seasons he was fairly wooden and bland with his attempted role as the smart guy. Especially when you compare him to Spock, Data or Dax. By Season 4, they just gave up on it and Seven got the role as the smart one who solves all the problems. At which point he basically faded to a glorified extra.

As for his rank? Well I always thought it was somewhat funny that from the get go, the Academy washout with huge anger management problems, a glorified mechanic in a terrorist organization, got a higher rank handed to her off the bat. Paris did too, but even when he was demoted for... hijacking a shuttle and launching a terrorist attack(no big deal, right?), he earned his rank back more quickly. Not to mention that Nog... the guy who was bringing Kim his drink when Voyager launched, made lieutenant more quickly! :p Really though, he should've been promoted in Endgame once they got home... of course that would require the show to have had ANY sort of epilogue instead of "oh we're home, fade to black."

Apparently Garrett Wang had a lot of personal issues on the set, which may very well have factored in. It was pretty much a known fact that they were going to get rid of him in Scorpion when Seven came along, but hey... some fangirl was apparently editor that 50 sexiest men list he got included on and he got a reprieve. Personally I think the series would've been better off with Kes instead of Ensign Extra, but hey.

Melakon April 18 2013 01:38 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7960810)
They were going for the eager young space novice with the character concept, that much was obvious.

You nailed it right here. He's Porky Pig in Duck Dodgers in the 24th and a Half Century! It all makes sense. So Buster Kincaid wasn't much of a stretch for Harry.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAUiUDyFlY

Dream April 18 2013 01:44 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Harry Kim.

From Zero to Zero. :)

Captain McBain April 18 2013 01:45 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Am I the only Star Trek fan who doesn't dislike Harry Kim? True, I don't exactly love the character, but there are definitely worse ones, at least in my demented mind.

Guy Gardener April 18 2013 02:11 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 7961284)
Harry Kim.

From Zero to Zero. :)

And in just 7 years!

If not for Caretaker, Voyager and Harry would have most probably been stationed at DS9, and spent his spare time crying into his synthohol at Quarks bar.

Just imagine all the woman of Deep Space Nine who could have shot him down, or ignored him if the timeline hadn't gone so off kilter?

Pondwater April 18 2013 02:15 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
He was fresh out of the Academy and in an Operations uniform..so it was likely he would spend at least 5+years as an Ensign. He really didn't do much that garnered a big time promotion. I guess towards the end maybe, when he started taking over the night shift on the bridge.:shrug:

AllStarEntprise April 18 2013 05:15 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Let's not forget this candid interview Garrett Wang gave about his time on VOY.

http://trekmovie.com/2011/06/22/garr...voyager-movie/

I find especially interesting the part where Berman ordered the VOY cast to be as bland and militaristic as possible. It explains Harry's void and depressed look we saw so often on VOY. A look SFDebris makes fun of at length. lol

Third Nacelle April 18 2013 05:24 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Quote:

Captain McBain wrote: (Post 7961296)
Am I the only Star Trek fan who doesn't dislike Harry Kim? True, I don't exactly love the character, but there are definitely worse ones, at least in my demented mind.

I don't exactly dislike him. There's nothing to dislike about him. Unfortunately, there's nothing to like about him either. I have the exact same feelings for Harry Kim as I have for Golwat, Mulcahey, Ashmore, or a phase inverter.

LobsterAfternoon April 18 2013 06:08 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Got no dislike for Harry, but he is bland. But I'd certainly rather watch him on screen than Vic Fontaine or Brunt.

teacake April 18 2013 10:48 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Well I always thought he was cute, sweet and a little dorky. Now if he was my boyfriend I would have secretly airlocked that clarinet but otherwise.. I'll take him over Tom Paris any day.

Guy Gardener April 18 2013 10:58 AM

Re: Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?
 
Clarinets aren't sexy?


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