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-   -   in favor of it's new matrix.... (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=209374)

Grup April 14 2013 02:39 AM

in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Could the debate over Cumberbatch not resembling Montalban be summed up by the fact that future Khan was killed in the Genesis Wave and was regenerated in favor of a new matrix? Sure, Spock was brought back to life and suffered no change as a result of Genesis, but Spock was dead already. Khan was killed by the Genesis Device.

Maybe future 'reborn' Khan comes back to settle scores? I hope not. Time travel is beginning to bore me. lol

I'm only putting this out there because there appears to be another rush of opinions that BC is going to end up being revealed as Khan.

I don't know, I don't care. I just want a really great movie.

WarpFactorZ April 14 2013 02:55 AM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Quote:

Grup wrote: (Post 7941445)
Could the debate over Cumberbatch not resembling Montalban be summed up by the fact that future Khan was killed in the Genesis Wave and was regenerated in favor of a new matrix?

So, the Genesis device was programed to destroy everyone and remake them blue eyed and white? Wait until Hitler (or the GOP) gets wind of this.

On a different note, why would the explosion of the Genesis device in the future have any impact on Khan in the past? Such a plot twist would serve only to completely confuse the audience (I'm even confused trying to figure it out).

Grup April 14 2013 03:10 AM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
This premise(?) would presume that Khan is not stumbled upon and thawed, but time travels back after being 'reborn' (I really hope not), to settle things.

The Genesis Aryan device.

WarpFactorZ April 14 2013 03:21 AM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Quote:

Grup wrote: (Post 7941550)
This premise(?) would presume that Khan is not stumbled upon and thawed, but time travels back after being 'reborn' (I really hope not), to settle things.

A villain time-travels into the past and exacts his revenge for something that happened in the future. I think I've heard that one before.

Nightowl1701 April 14 2013 03:38 AM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
I'm slowly coming around to the idea (advanced in another thread) that not only is Cumberbatch not Khan, but that it really doesn't matter who "John Harrison" even is. Storywise he's Darth Maul, General Grievous, Bane, the guy Robert Carlyle was playing in The World Is Not Enough.

In other words, he's a distraction. A red herring. A decoy. A henchman at best. The REAL bad guy (girl?) of Star Trek Into Darkness is someone we haven't met yet, someone the prerelease marketing isn't even hinting at.

Grup April 14 2013 03:45 AM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Quote:

WarpFactorZ wrote: (Post 7941577)
Quote:

Grup wrote: (Post 7941550)
This premise(?) would presume that Khan is not stumbled upon and thawed, but time travels back after being 'reborn' (I really hope not), to settle things.

A villain time-travels into the past and exacts his revenge for something that happened in the future. I think I've heard that one before.

Which is why I hope that's not the case. I'm just putting out a possible reason for why BC would no longer look like traditional Khan if he is in fact Khan.

Nightowl - Agreed. I have long believed that BC was just a plot device. I eluded to that in one of my earliest posts for this film.

WarpFactorZ April 14 2013 03:54 AM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Quote:

Nightowl1701 wrote: (Post 7941634)
The REAL bad guy (girl?) of Star Trek Into Darkness is someone we haven't met yet, someone the prerelease marketing isn't even hinting at.

If you consider the original draft treatment for STII, what we know about this movie fits quite well into context (it's been posted elsewhere here, but I'll paraphrase). The idea is Kirk et al. are sent to quell a rebellion on a Federation colony, only to find that the rebellion is being led by his son David. As it turns out, Khan is the mastermind behind the scenes.

So, substitute John Harrison for David Marcus, and voila. Star Trek Into Darkness.

Also, long before we had Khan, the villain was supposed to be Harold Ericsson, a nordic "superman". As someone else pointed out: HARold erIcSSON = HARRISON.

M'Sharak April 14 2013 03:54 AM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Quote:

WarpFactorZ wrote: (Post 7941496)
Quote:

Grup wrote: (Post 7941445)
Could the debate over Cumberbatch not resembling Montalban be summed up by the fact that future Khan was killed in the Genesis Wave and was regenerated in favor of a new matrix?

So, the Genesis device was programed to destroy everyone and remake them blue eyed and white? Wait until Hitler (or the GOP) gets wind of this.

Hold on, WarpFactorZ; you're erring on a couple of levels here.

First: the "blue-eyed and white/Hitler" crack is pretty tacky and it's unnecessary in this context. I'd like it a lot if you avoided that sort of thing altogether in this forum.

Second: I've requested many times over the last several years that politics be checked at the door. Here we talk about Star Trek, and political topics—unless they have some actual bearing upon a story or story point under discussion—should be left outside the forum. Making a partisan dig (as you did here) and compounding it by tying it to Hitler/Nazis is completely out of line, and it'll earn you a warning if I see anything of the sort from you again.

We're all Trek fans here, so play nice.

Quote:

Grup wrote: (Post 7941550)

The Genesis Aryan device.

That also could have been better done without.

J. Allen April 14 2013 08:53 AM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Quote:

Nightowl1701 wrote: (Post 7941634)
I'm slowly coming around to the idea (advanced in another thread) that not only is Cumberbatch not Khan, but that it really doesn't matter who "John Harrison" even is. Storywise he's Darth Maul, General Grievous, Bane, the guy Robert Carlyle was playing in The World Is Not Enough.

In other words, he's a distraction. A red herring. A decoy. A henchman at best. The REAL bad guy (girl?) of Star Trek Into Darkness is someone we haven't met yet, someone the prerelease marketing isn't even hinting at.

Lately, I've been having that same thought myself. Either way, doesn't matter to me as long as we get an awesome movie out of it. :D

Set Harth April 14 2013 05:34 PM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Quote:

Bane, the guy Robert Carlyle was playing in The World Is Not Enough
A little redundancy there, don't you think? :p

King Daniel Into Darkness April 14 2013 05:41 PM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Khan turned white and blond (mostly grey) in Wrath of Khan, as did all of his followers. How do we explain that? Something in the Ceti Alphan water?

Gojira April 14 2013 06:11 PM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Quote:

Nightowl1701 wrote: (Post 7941634)
I'm slowly coming around to the idea (advanced in another thread) that not only is Cumberbatch not Khan, but that it really doesn't matter who "John Harrison" even is. Storywise he's Darth Maul, General Grievous, Bane, the guy Robert Carlyle was playing in The World Is Not Enough.

In other words, he's a distraction. A red herring. A decoy. A henchman at best. The REAL bad guy (girl?) of Star Trek Into Darkness is someone we haven't met yet, someone the prerelease marketing isn't even hinting at.


I agree with you up to a point. I think Cumberbatch is not Khan but possibly one of his henchmen that got thawed out early and Khan will be in the next film.

OR...

This movie or the next have absolutely nothing to do with Khan whatsoever.

Admiral Buzzkill April 14 2013 09:23 PM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
Cumberbatch is Khan.

Hober Mallow April 14 2013 10:21 PM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
I'm looking forward to the days following the movie's release and the inevitable "but it was supposed to be Khan/they said it was going to be Khan/they LIED TO US!" threads that will fill this forum.

BillJ April 14 2013 11:06 PM

Re: in favor of it's new matrix....
 
For the love of God, no more time-travel for a while.

And I say that as someone who loves time-travel in Star Trek.


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