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R. Star April 10 2013 03:52 PM

Terra Prime
 
This was one of the better stories of season 4 and certainly could have wrapped up the series on a better note than a certain episode that shall go unnamed. Paxton made a compelling villain and there was certainly plenty of drama and conflict within the two episodes. Not to mention Archer gave perhaps his one good speech on Enterprise this episode.

The one major unresolved plot point that crossed my mind was, what about all the Terra Prime supporters that were protesting outside the foreign embassies? There were enough people that Soval remarked that humanity didn't seen ready to be joining nonetheless hosting such an interplanetary conference. Not to mention Nathan Samuels, who was a Minister of some sort, apparently had a prosperous and active political career despite his previous affiliation with Terra Prime, which would seem to indicate a lot of people were sympathetic or willing to turn a blind eye to the organization. Not to mention all the racist scenes at Phlox's expense throughout season 4 in the San Fransisco area indicates that sentiment supporting them is rather strong.

The major plot hole I see in this episode is... this is never addressed. Oh sure the good guys save the day again, the bad guy is captured, and Archer gives a good speech that apparently rouses all the foreign dignitaries so much they forget about all of this. But you seemingly have a significant percentage of the Earth population that is... against all this. So much for will of the people, I guess.

Hando April 10 2013 06:06 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
I would say Terra Prime is a typical National/Nationalist Party, wanting isolation.
Also the whole anti-alien feelings were due to the Xindi attack. I don't believe that it is due to economic reason,as we don't see that many aliens on Earth in any era.

gblews April 10 2013 07:32 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7924648)
This was one of the better stories of season 4 and certainly could have wrapped up the series on a better note than a certain episode that shall go unnamed. Paxton made a compelling villain and there was certainly plenty of drama and conflict within the two episodes. Not to mention Archer gave perhaps his one good speech on Enterprise this episode.

The one major unresolved plot point that crossed my mind was, what about all the Terra Prime supporters that were protesting outside the foreign embassies? There were enough people that Soval remarked that humanity didn't seen ready to be joining nonetheless hosting such an interplanetary conference. Not to mention Nathan Samuels, who was a Minister of some sort, apparently had a prosperous and active political career despite his previous affiliation with Terra Prime, which would seem to indicate a lot of people were sympathetic or willing to turn a blind eye to the organization. Not to mention all the racist scenes at Phlox's expense throughout season 4 in the San Fransisco area indicates that sentiment supporting them is rather strong.

The major plot hole I see in this episode is... this is never addressed. Oh sure the good guys save the day again, the bad guy is captured, and Archer gives a good speech that apparently rouses all the foreign dignitaries so much they forget about all of this. But you seemingly have a significant percentage of the Earth population that is... against all this. So much for will of the people, I guess.

A good question because yoiu know the poblems persisted long after the events of Terra Pime.

I think that as far as the populace is concerned, the conclusion we are supposed to draw is that they have to work this out for themselves over time. The one incident with nut case, Paxton certainly wouldn't be enough to change the minds of so many.

One would assume that just like with Trip and Archer, continued contact with those you fear and distrust teaches that they are no different from us in most respects and therefore there is no reason to fear, distrust, or hate -- just as this is true in real life.

This is one of the reasons I so love Demons/Terra Prime. They are so subtle yet profound in their message about intolerance, keeping it wrapped in a classic Trek story.

Melakon April 10 2013 08:37 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
I thought it sort of reflected the United States' isolationist movement before it became actively involved in WWII. The most high profile charismatic celebrity encouraging U.S. isolationism was Charles Lindbergh. Then Pearl Harbor made all that talk irrelevant.

jespah April 10 2013 10:15 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Hmm but the
kind of is ENT's Pearl Harbor.

I think the isolationism doesn't really, completely go away, but it does go more underground.

teacake April 10 2013 11:44 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Yes it goes more underground IMO. It's like the anti-immigration movements in Europe and the racism towards immigration prevalent in my own country, Australia. It's there, it gets press coverage, how big it is is debatable (here at least) but official policies go on regardless. Yes you are free to join any group or party that is against immigration/alien alliances but will you win any elections and actually change policy? I don't think the Terra Prime supporters, for all their noise and visibility were able to produce the numbers to get the votes. Likely they were seen as extremists even by people who feared alien contact and sympathized with their policies.

Melakon April 11 2013 02:38 AM

Re: Terra Prime
 
I'm in Arizona, which is also a hotbed spot. I'm not opposed to immigration, but I think it should be done through already established channels. The problem is the government doesn't have enough people to process the applications in a timely manner, and they never hire more people to help with the process, only enforcers.

gblews April 11 2013 08:12 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7925932)
I thought it sort of reflected the United States' isolationist movement before it became actively involved in WWII.

The isolationist feelings among Americans prior to involvement in WWII was not based on racism (there is some serious irony in that sentence). In Terra Prime, humans wanted to stay away from aliens because of their fear, and distrust which led to hatred -- racism or, in this case, xenophobia.

Americans who wanted to avoid the WWII conflict simply wanted to stay out of what they perceived as "other people's war".

Both pre-WWII Americans and 24th century humans wanted to be "isolated" but the reasons for wanting isolation were entirely different between the two.

Melakon April 11 2013 08:58 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
I'm fairly sure their intended parallel was the anti-Arab resentment that built following the World Trade Center disaster (WTC=TCW?), but remembered Lindbergh's political involvement and statements on racial purity and eugenics.

gblews April 12 2013 12:19 AM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7931146)
I'm fairly sure their intended parallel was the anti-Arab resentment that built following the World Trade Center disaster (WTC=TCW?), but remembered Lindbergh's political involvement and statements on racial purity and eugenics.

:confused: Can't figure out how this relates to the current topic.

Melakon April 12 2013 04:59 AM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Well forgive me then. I saw Harry Groener's politician character standing in for Lindbergh, but if that interpretation of the episode is somehow offtopic, I must be misunderstanding the title of the thread. Maybe I'm confusing it with "Demons".

T'Girl April 12 2013 12:24 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7924648)
Not to mention Nathan Samuels, who was a Minister of some sort, apparently had a prosperous and active political career despite his previous affiliation with Terra Prime, which would seem to indicate a lot of people were sympathetic or willing to turn a blind eye to the organization.

Robert Byrd, Democratic from West Virginia.

His membership in the Klan certainly didn't stop him from repeated re-elections to the American federal government (57 years?). He was a power player in the Democratic leadership for much of that time.

His "past associations" likely helped him, more than they hurt him.


:)

Sindatur April 12 2013 06:29 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 7933510)
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7924648)
Not to mention Nathan Samuels, who was a Minister of some sort, apparently had a prosperous and active political career despite his previous affiliation with Terra Prime, which would seem to indicate a lot of people were sympathetic or willing to turn a blind eye to the organization.

Robert Byrd, Democratic from West Virginia.

His membership in the Klan certainly didn't stop him from repeated re-elections to the American federal government (57 years?). He was a power player in the Democratic leadership for much of that time.

His "past associations" likely helped him, more than they hurt him.


:)

And Strom Thurman supporting Segregation as well

gblews April 12 2013 07:23 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7932763)
Well forgive me then. I saw Harry Groener's politician character standing in for Lindbergh, but if that interpretation of the episode is somehow offtopic, I must be misunderstanding the title of the thread. Maybe I'm confusing it with "Demons".

I think Groener was way more like the folks mentioned up thread, Robert Byrd and Strom Thurmond, although many would argue that unlike Groener, Byrd and Thurmond never really changed their views -- they only covered them up.

But the immediate topic was the similarities or differences between human isolationist tendencies in Demons/Terre Prime and American isolationist tendencies, pre-WWII.

R. Star April 12 2013 07:35 PM

Re: Terra Prime
 
Yeah, those are good analogies. The Thurmond and Byrd ones, not the Lindbergh one. I never understood why people always have to draw parallels in situations and can't just take them as they are. There seems a huge world of difference in causes and motivations between the pre-WW2 isolationalists and the xenophobic tendencies of people towards aliens after the Xindi incident.

I just don't understand how Earth can transition as presented in the show to loudly protesting against aliens, supporting Terra Prime even after they committed terrorist acts and with a Minister of some sort who's likely quietly sympathetic to them even if he won't come out and say it to starting up the Coalition of Planets in the same episode. The only people who stuck up for it were the main cast and Samuels who's literally just hugging the line between the two for political survival.


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