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The Overlord April 8 2013 09:32 PM

Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
What do you think of Worf's actions during Birthright Part II? Was Worf teaching people who lost their way to be proud of their heritage or was Worf being a racist trouble maker who disrupted a peaceful situation between a group of Klingons and Romulans?

R. Star April 8 2013 09:52 PM

Re: Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
Both are fairly accurate descriptions. Though it's a bit ironic he ascribes behavior as to how "all Klingons" should behave when he's such an atypical Klingon himself. He did do as he thought right in teaching them of their heritage, but he also was blatantly racist against Romulans and probably did take a certain joy out of screwing with Tokath's utopia.

indolover April 8 2013 10:30 PM

Re: Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
I think a reasonable conclusion was met at the end. the youngsters left to live in the Empire, whilst the elders remained and were free to live in their community. Worf himself technically lied to Picard when he said that nobody survived Khitomer, but it was an "honour" lie, and not as bad lol..

jimbotron April 9 2013 09:45 PM

Re: Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
Worf has a serious chip on his shoulder whenever it comes to Klingons not living the Klingon way. After all, he didn't have the benefit of a Klingon upbringing, he was mostly raised by humans, and has been overcompensating ever since. That especially showed when it came to raising his son. Though he's a hypocrite because he first shipped him to his human parents before raising him himself. Then it was Klingon warrior this, Klingon warrior that.

Then Worf sees Alexander years later actually trying to be a Klingon warrior, and he gets annoyed all over again. Worf's an 'interesting' character.

JirinPanthosa April 10 2013 04:37 AM

Re: Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
Quote:

The Overlord wrote: (Post 7916575)
What do you think of Worf's actions during Birthright Part II? Was Worf teaching people who lost their way to be proud of their heritage or was Worf being a racist trouble maker who disrupted a peaceful situation between a group of Klingons and Romulans?

Let's remember that those children were born prisoners, and that situation is not acceptable no matter how peaceful they were living. They had to be given the choice whether or not they wanted to live there, no different from Masterpiece Society.

Worf's behavior was certainly racist, but the targets of his racism were his captors. He got over the fact the girl was half-Romulan and loved her anyway.

R. Star April 10 2013 05:39 AM

Re: Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
Quote:

JirinPanthosa wrote: (Post 7923028)
Quote:

The Overlord wrote: (Post 7916575)
What do you think of Worf's actions during Birthright Part II? Was Worf teaching people who lost their way to be proud of their heritage or was Worf being a racist trouble maker who disrupted a peaceful situation between a group of Klingons and Romulans?

Let's remember that those children were born prisoners, and that situation is not acceptable no matter how peaceful they were living. They had to be given the choice whether or not they wanted to live there, no different from Masterpiece Society.

Worf's behavior was certainly racist, but the targets of his racism were his captors. He got over the fact the girl was half-Romulan and loved her anyway.


Really everyone was wrong in a measure. Tokath and the older Klingons pretty much forced their views on their children and did everything censure any opposing viewpoints. Worf was clearly well intentioned, but it never occurred to him that they could be happy there instead of fitting his racial profiles of how people should be. Really the victims of the whole episode where the Klingon children who never had a choice.

Timo April 10 2013 02:16 PM

Re: Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
The wider context should also be noted here: any group of people condemned to live their lives on a single planet, without contact to the interstellar community, can be considered to be unduly suffering (as prisoners, castaways or other sidelined people today are) unless they specifically demonstrate they are hermits-by-choice. In Trek terms, staying on one planet is quite analogous to fortifying at one's ranch and never stepping outside.

Of course, with a ranch the size of a planet, the concept of fortifying loses some of the "deprivation" aspects that are so central to crazy cult fortresses today, even if the social context is the very same. But while Carraya apparently was a vast, lush planet, and the former prison camp walls did not hinder the movement of the inhabitants, the group of cultists there was still the same size as its terrestrial equivalents from today, so the social deprivation element is still very much there.

Our heroes frequently encounter people who want nothing to do with society-at-large. Kirk was in the habit of punching such people in the face until they agreed to become more sociable; Picard had no such inborn wish to alter status quo, but always encountered these hermits in situations where change was already dictated by outside forces, so the end result was the same. Was Worf going against some sort of a Starfleet directive by letting the Carraya camp stand even when it amounted to inhuman deprivation? Or was he simply reenacting "The Masterpiece Society" without the outside pressure of a stellar core fragment impact?

As for the children never having a choice, how is this different from the societal norms of the rest of the Klingon Empire, or the Romulan Star Empire? Rebelling against one's native society is considered ill form in general (everybody despises Worf for defecting to the Federation); the elders on Carraya don't appear to be in a special position in this respect.

Timo Saloniemi

sonak April 10 2013 07:15 PM

Re: Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
I think the intention of the writers was to have it be Worf trying to get these Klingons to re-connect and be informed of their heritage to make their own choices. Unfortunately, in its execution, the episode made Worf seem like an intolerant troublemaker.

Worf'sParmach April 21 2013 06:00 AM

Re: Worf's actions during Birthright Part II
 
Quote:

jimbotron wrote: (Post 7921354)
Worf has a serious chip on his shoulder whenever it comes to Klingons not living the Klingon way. After all, he didn't have the benefit of a Klingon upbringing, he was mostly raised by humans, and has been overcompensating ever since.

This. I bet Worf was so excited to have some klingons looking up to him that he just couldn't help himself. That said, this is one of my favorite Worf episodes because it is so "gray." Worf and Tokath are both being intollerant with Ba'el being the commonality that helps them see that.


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