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-   -   Is Batman crazy? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=208207)

xortex April 3 2013 03:24 PM

Is Batman crazy?
 
A paranoid delusional schizophrenic? He was an eye witness to his parents murder. Why didn't he try to charge Jack the Joker with their murder in court first. Did he just assume Gotham was corrupt already. He basically created the Joker by forcing him to defend himself of Batman's revenge wreaking havok on Gothem in the process. He lived in a cave, was definately eccentric or accentric, antisocial and had mental problems and issues, which justified or not were handled wrongly. He lived in a cave and dressed like a bat.

Silvercrest April 3 2013 04:00 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
Do you specifically mean Burton's Batman? Half your statements only apply to that movie.

Asbo Zaprudder April 3 2013 04:24 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
He doesn't live in a cave, he lives in Wayne Manor -- but is he crazy? Most probably. Paranoid, delusional schizophrenic, nah. Dissociative Identity Disorder or Antisocial Personality Disorder, perhaps...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...-health-part-1

Mysterion April 3 2013 04:42 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
Oh, no doubt. An army of psrinks could get their children through college and med school on Bruce Wayne's problems alone.

Mark_Nguyen April 3 2013 04:47 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
And a whole other army on Batman's various enemies..

Mark

Samurai8472 April 3 2013 04:47 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
C'mon! Let's get nuts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OufCgFZCyU

sonak April 3 2013 04:54 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
dude, this is so weird, I've been considering doing a thread on this. My point of view is yes, he is.

From an objective standpoint, his "mission" is crazy. Obsessively devote yourself to a one-man war on crime to the exclusion of your own happiness and normal life. Not to mention, dressing up as a bat and being a vigilante is a pretty stupid way to fight crime. Why doesn't he run for office or use his financial resources to combat the social causes of crime? His method is the most inefficient way of doing it, and then to add to that, he refuses to kill, which means that he willingly lets mass murderers like the Joker get more chances to kill, in contrast to his stated mission of making sure others won't have to go through what Bruce did as a kid.


I agree with the Joker in "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" -Batman's still a little kid crying for his mom and dad. He never moved on and got over their deaths. He let their deaths DEFINE his entire life, how is that not crazy?

JoeZhang April 3 2013 04:56 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 7893289)
in contrast to his stated mission of making sure others won't have to go through what Bruce did as a kid.

And he tries to achieve this by asking small boys to hang around on roof-tops wearing hotpants?*





* Yes I know they aren't actually hotpants.

Christopher April 3 2013 05:10 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
"Crazy" is not a valid diagnostic term, just a petty insult. "Insane" is a term that has a legal definition but not a clinical one. Is Bruce Wayne legally insane? Absolutely not. He is aware of the nature and quality of his actions; he knows that he is fighting criminals in Gotham City instead of, say, battling Nazis in WWII or fighting demons in Hell. He is aware that his actions are extralegal, as evidenced by the steps he employs to conceal his identity. He does not suffer from diminished mental capacity; he has a brilliant analytical mind and a degree of perceptiveness that exceeds most people's, enabling him to be a master detective. He would thus certainly be able to understand the proceedings in a court of law and participate meaningfully with his defense.

Now, approaching it clinically, is Bruce Wayne psychotic? Absolutely not. He does not hallucinate or suffer from paranoid delusions; the enemies he fights are real, and he knows who and where he is. He does not suffer catatonia, excess or purposeless motor behavior, extreme mental preoccupation, or dissociation; on the contrary, he retains solid control of himself both mentally and physically beyond what most individuals are capable of. Were he psychotic, he would be unable to function as a crimefighter or maintain a successful secret identity.

It could perhaps be validly said that Bruce Wayne has a personality disorder -- perhaps something in the narcissism spectrum, an exaggerated sense of his own importance and the belief that he must personally defeat crime rather than trusting in the system. But I doubt narcissism would work, because it's characterized by a lack of empathy for others, and Bruce's whole life is about empathy for the victims of crime. It might be more accurate to say that he has an emotional disorder, inability to let go of the grief of his parents' death and move on with his life; but he has parlayed this disorder into something that's actually very constructive. Plenty of people can manage their personality disorders and direct them in a functional way, and only the most petty and mean-spirited of people would call that "crazy."

People often say that dressing up in a cape and tights is a sign of psychological dysfunction, but while that might be true in our world, it doesn't work as an argument applied to Batman. After all, he lives in a world where lots of people wear capes, tights, and other flamboyant costumes as part of a crimefighting career. It's a normative practice in his reality, and it's no more crazy for a crimefighter in the DC Universe to wear an animal-themed costume and mask than it is for a crimefighter in our universe to carry a metal badge around.

JoeZhang April 3 2013 05:30 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
Quote:

Now, approaching it clinically, is Bruce Wayne psychotic? Absolutely not. He does not hallucinate or suffer from paranoid delusions
Actually in some versions he does - when they did the Bruce Wayne: Murderer storyline, they did a rather odd story in a single issue which isn't even part of the cross-over which explains why he owns the gun that is used to commit the murder because a giant Batman told him to. So right upto the revamp, the last version of Batman did - on page - suffer from hallucinations.

Moreover, in the most recent version he broke a young girl's noise simply because she was following him around and refused to summon a doctor to help someone who had acid splashed in their face because "it is a family matter" - signs of a dangerously unbalanced individual with warped judgement.

Enterprise is Great April 3 2013 05:55 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
It depends on the writer. Some write him as if he's "crazy" and other write him as if he's not.

Christopher April 3 2013 06:07 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
Quote:

JoeZhang wrote: (Post 7893412)
Actually in some versions he does...

Key words, "in some versions." But some versions make less sense than others. It's frankly ludicrous to claim that someone who's clinically delusional could be a functional crimefighter at all, let alone the World's Greatest Detective. Knowing what's real and what isn't is pretty much essential to being a detective. So anyone who writes Batman as insane is not thinking it through.


Quote:

Moreover, in the most recent version he broke a young girl's noise simply because she was following him around and refused to summon a doctor to help someone who had acid splashed in their face because "it is a family matter" - signs of a dangerously unbalanced individual with warped judgement.
Sounds more like badly out-of-character writing to me. Even so, what you're describing there is a personality disorder or just general jerkiness, not insanity by any clinical or legal definition.

The problem is, too many Batman writers are trying to do The Dark Knight Returns, but TDKR was never intended to be a typical portrayal of Batman; it was meant to be an extreme alternate future, and in some ways a deconstruction and dark reflection of the lighter version of the character and his world that had prevailed in comics to that point. So some writers just make Batman gratuitously dark and harsh and brutal because they think it's cool. But that just doesn't fit a character who's voluntarily given up the cushy, comfortable life he could easily have because he's passionately devoted to making sure other people don't have to lose loved ones to crime the way he did. He's not about the kind of gratuitous brutality or cruelty you describe. He's about fighting those things, about stopping the kind of people who would cause unnecessary pain to the innocent. So I'd say the warped judgment there is the writer's.

Agent Richard07 April 3 2013 07:38 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
I'd say that with the modern darker versions of the character, he's sensitive, antisocial and suffers from emotional trauma, all of which he acts on. He does have a sharp mind, but a lot of people with issues have sharp minds. Some of the worst people I've met are pretty sharp and have a calm rational demeanor.

xortex April 3 2013 08:33 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
Like George Bush? But the Joker was obviously psychotic, deranged, demented and delusional, and functioned quite fine as a criminal, so what's the difference? He's not glorified? Are people starting to identify with bad guys like Bond being a government assassin anti-hero who is smooth and charming and gets all the girls and the fancy cars. Heck, JJ's Kirk got his own Starship pimped out. Vin Diesal's Riddick and XXX were also basically crimals and killers yet we love them. Why?

Bush's goal was to destroy evil. How is that not insane/ Dr. Severin was declared insane by Spock and the list goes on and on as to what defines insanity and why we love it in this time of guns and violence. What's insane to me is building a gun in the first place. Why doesn't the US crack down on whoever builds guns and/or brings them (smuggles) them here just like drugs. The police in Britain don't have guns and I don't think the Enterprise should have either, personal phasers or a ship's weapon's system and no need for Reed, who liked to blow things up. Aggressive thoughts invite aggression especially with species like the Vulcans out there or what could be much worse, telepathically speaking. How would you like to live in an axis of evil country where you eat a bowl of lentils a day compared to the unbelievable excesses of money and corruption and garbage of the USA?

Servo April 3 2013 08:53 PM

Re: Is Batman crazy?
 
Quote:

xortex wrote: (Post 7894084)
But the Joker was obviously psychotic, deranged, demented and delusional, and functioned quite fine as a criminal, so what's the difference?

:wtf:

Umm... he was a criminal. A psychotic criminal. All the traits you mentioned are pretty much essential for the Joker's particular brand of criminality, hence he's able to function as a deranged criminal, because he's deranged. If Batman had all those issues, he would not be able to function as a crimefighter on pretty much any level. There's the difference.


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