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-   -   In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=207718)

WesleysDisciple March 30 2013 04:03 AM

In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
if the enterprise had gotten there 3 seconds latter, would data have been charged with murder most likely, or think it woul dbe seen as justifiable given the circumstances.

Dale Sams March 30 2013 04:15 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Quote:

WesleysDisciple wrote: (Post 7872565)
if the enterprise had gotten there 3 seconds latter, would data have been charged with murder most likely, or think it woul dbe seen as justifiable given the circumstances.

Charged by whom? Also Data can't touch him, so he can't restrain him. There's no stun setting and there's nothing stopping Kivas from going over and picking up the other disruptor. Data 'arrested' him, he refused. ZAP.

JessDD March 30 2013 04:27 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Agreed. Self protection. Battered Android Syndrome.


Take your pick.

JirinPanthosa March 30 2013 06:43 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
His actions would have been deemed justified. Fajo had enslaved him and was threatening the lives of innocent people to maintain that enslavement, and killing him was, to the best of his knowledge at the time, the only viable escape option.

R. Star March 30 2013 08:23 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Who's going to charge him? It's perfectly justifiable to kill your kidnapper. If anything Data took his own sweet time in getting to it. Even the guy with a few gigs of ethical programming said "this cannot continue." He was talking about his incarceration as much as he was Fajo's murderous control over his people. Fajo flat out said he was going to keep killing people.

cheesepuff316 March 30 2013 05:31 PM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Even if Data had agreed to be Fajo's toy, it still wouldn't have stopped Fajo from killing other crew if he felt like it. Data had to weigh up the consequences of not killing Fajo (risking the lives of his crew) or kill Fajo and save the rest of the crew.
His ethical subroutines told him that to have the least amount of bloodshed, killing Fajo was the best decision. Fortunately though, the Enterprise beamed them both out in time...

cheesepuff316 March 30 2013 05:33 PM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Always wondered what happened to his ship after? Was it towed to a starbase and dealt with there? Did they leave his first officer in charge? Did Fajo even have a first officer?

Mojochi March 30 2013 09:32 PM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Quote:

cheesepuff316 wrote: (Post 7874311)
Always wondered what happened to his ship after? Was it towed to a starbase and dealt with there? Did they leave his first officer in charge? Did Fajo even have a first officer?

Assuming it was actually his, I'm pretty sure after all his stolen goods were confiscated, his other material possessions were likely sold to cover legal penalties, & it sounded like the ENT-D crew began the whole process right then

I imagine he was ruined, as well as imprisoned. He really picked the wrong commodity to steal

Mr. Laser Beam March 30 2013 09:38 PM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Fajo's crew were probably all conscripted anyway, so I'm sure they were allowed to return to their homes.

Moriarty April 1 2013 12:29 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
I actually believe Data when he says that it was just a transporter malfunction after he beams back to the Enterprise. I think it would be a contradiction for him to kill someone when he said earlier on in the episode that he couldn't commit murder. Now, I know he also said that he has the capability of killing someone in self defence (not murder) but Kivas Fajo said that he wasn't going to harm Data, correctly identifying that Data couldn't actually kill him in that situation.

Also, Data cannot lie without the emotions chip (which afair hasn't been encountered at this point).

Dream April 1 2013 12:31 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
The best part of this episode was the ending. You know the episode made an impact when fans are still talking about it 20 years later! :techman:

R. Star April 1 2013 01:02 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 7879945)
The best part of this episode was the ending. You know the episode made an impact when fans are still talking about it 20 years later! :techman:

By that standard Threshold is one of the best Trek episodes. ;)

yousirname April 1 2013 01:24 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Quote:

Moriarty wrote: (Post 7879933)
Also, Data cannot lie without the emotions chip (which afair hasn't been encountered at this point).

Can he not? He does in Clues. Admittedly he was ordered to by Picard, but I'm not sure if that's significant.

Mr. Laser Beam April 1 2013 01:59 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Quote:

Moriarty wrote: (Post 7879933)
I know he also said that he has the capability of killing someone in self defence (not murder) but Kivas Fajo said that he wasn't going to harm Data

Fajo may not have had any ill intent against Data specifically, but that's not the point. Fajo clearly had intent to harm OTHERS, and specifically threatened to do so ("I'll just kill someone else," I believe he said).

So Data was naturally justified in firing at Fajo. Killing someone because they are a danger to other people (other than yourself) is still not murder.

Worf'sParmach April 1 2013 04:31 AM

Re: In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7880149)
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 7879945)
The best part of this episode was the ending. You know the episode made an impact when fans are still talking about it 20 years later! :techman:

By that standard Threshold is one of the best Trek episodes. ;)

:guffaw:


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